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Time in Type Requirements

CesnaCaptn

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How much time in type is typically required by insurance companies to act as PIC on a corporate jet?

For example, I have about 7000 hours, 5000 is a combination of PIC and SIC on airliners, could I get a type in a citation or falcon or hawker and immediately act as PIC?

Does it make a difference if the aircraft is operated under 135 vs. 91?
 

Fly91

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How much time in type is typically required by insurance companies to act as PIC on a corporate jet?

For example, I have about 7000 hours, 5000 is a combination of PIC and SIC on airliners, could I get a type in a citation or falcon or hawker and immediately act as PIC?

Does it make a difference if the aircraft is operated under 135 vs. 91?

Some companies require 100 in type after you get the type-rating, some require 50 hours, some none. Just depends on them and your PIC jet time. I'm getting typed on a new aircraft (Part 91) and I'm going directly into the aircraft when I get back from school.

How much PIC jet do you have?

I have a friend that flew for TWA for 12 years and had 10,000+ total time, almost 4,000 on the 757/767, but it was all SIC. He didn't have a single hour of jet PIC. He went and got a Hawker type-rating after TWA went down the tubes and the company he was with required him to get 100 hours in type before he could act as PIC.
 

bizjet800

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It depends on the insurance company. With your time and PIC jet time, you should no trouble getting approved, as long as you have been to school (FSI, Simuflite) recently.
 

BoilerUP

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Company/department policies and insurance policies are two VERY different animals...
 

CesnaCaptn

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I have about 1800 jet PIC.

Ballpark, how much does a FSI or simuflite course cost. How long does it take? Again, for a Citation, Hawker, or Falcon?
 

BoilerUP

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Simcom MCO CE550 (Citation II) PIC Initial is about $13,800 and it takes 14 days.
 

CesnaCaptn

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I've been reading this forum, the charter forum, and the part 135 forum. I'm trying to find info on whether or not to operate the aircraft as part 91 or 135. Anyone no of any good threads? I didn't really know what to search.

A little more info is that my "rich uncle" wants to buy a jet. He's pretty clueless when it comes to aviation, and I'm only a step ahead when it comes to corporate aviation. He wants a plane that can fly x-country nonstop, but mostly do flights under 2 hours. He's told me a lot about what he wants, but hasn't talked price yet. Either money is truly no object or he's not as serious and he leads on.

He figures he can buy the jet and make a little money/lose a little less money buy holding out. I started to explain to him that holding out to the public adds a lot of complication to ownership. Are there any good websites or threads that talk about the pros and cons of how one operates his jet?
 

Fly91

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I've been reading this forum, the charter forum, and the part 135 forum. I'm trying to find info on whether or not to operate the aircraft as part 91 or 135. Anyone no of any good threads? I didn't really know what to search.

A little more info is that my "rich uncle" wants to buy a jet. He's pretty clueless when it comes to aviation, and I'm only a step ahead when it comes to corporate aviation. He wants a plane that can fly x-country nonstop, but mostly do flights under 2 hours. He's told me a lot about what he wants, but hasn't talked price yet. Either money is truly no object or he's not as serious and he leads on.

He figures he can buy the jet and make a little money/lose a little less money buy holding out. I started to explain to him that holding out to the public adds a lot of complication to ownership. Are there any good websites or threads that talk about the pros and cons of how one operates his jet?

I've helped a few of these "rich" people through the process of buying and operating a jet. The first question you need to ask your uncle is: "Can you financially support a 91 operation to handle all the flying you want to do with the plane?" If he can, than don't even think about putting it on a 135 certificate. If he can't afford it than the process has just turned into a pain in the arse. But doable of course.

Also, see how much cash he has to spend on a plane, this all could be a pipe-dream and he might not know it yet. Because when someone says they want a plane that can fly cross-country (I'm assuming he wants to be able to do that all year round, both ways), now you're talking about expensive planes, its a big jump from a Lear 35 that can accomodate his "mostly" 2 hour flights.
 

NotFurloughed

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Also, see how much cash he has to spend on a plane, this all could be a pipe-dream and he might not know it yet. Because when someone says they want a plane that can fly cross-country (I'm assuming he wants to be able to do that all year round, both ways), now you're talking about expensive planes, its a big jump from a Lear 35 that can accomodate his "mostly" 2 hour flights.

It is worth reiterating this point. There is a huge difference between a 2 hour jet and a 5 hour + jet, both in purchase and operational expense.

As far as PIC, insurance and time in type....

91 to 135 will see a substantial increase in premium. Also, Liability coverage will play a large part in premium and requirements. Hull coverage is hull coverage...

A liability coverage of $50 million can be had relatively easily and with relatively liberal PIC requirements.

However, when you go to $100 million and $300 million+ liability per occurrence, then you come under the microscope - combine those limits with a 135 certificate and you have a hill to climb.

Best thing to do is pick up the phone to a USAIG or AIG representative and run some aircraft/personnel question by him/her.
 

svcta

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You'll continue to field good knowledge about the types of aircraft that fit different missions here, but the one thing that I want to point out is that having been in part 91 for a little over 2 years now I am AMAZED at the knowledge required to efficiently manage even just one airplane. Insurance, MSP, revolving maintenance schedules and who to have do it, finding a good part-time mechanic (or talking the boss in to a full time one) RVSM manuals & MELs (having them written for your airplane), tax implications, keeping on top of training requirements, fuel cards, on and on and on.

It's certainly not insurmountable but I can't imagine being given a new department to manage even having been exposed for a couple of years. I would anticipate some heavy consultation if it were me.
 

LJ45

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I have about 1800 jet PIC.

Ballpark, how much does a FSI or simuflite course cost. How long does it take? Again, for a Citation, Hawker, or Falcon?

you are typed in a C750, but yet seem to have no idea how things work? :confused:
 

CesnaCaptn

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you are typed in a C750, but yet seem to have no idea how things work? :confused:
\

If you read carefully, I've flown it, but wasn't typed in typed in it. I have a friend who was managing a Citation X, part 91. He called me out on a couple legs to fill the right seat. I have less than 10 hours in it, and it has been 7 years.
 

Gulfstream 200

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How much time in type is typically required by insurance companies to act as PIC on a corporate jet?

For example, I have about 7000 hours, 5000 is a combination of PIC and SIC on airliners, could I get a type in a citation or falcon or hawker and immediately act as PIC?

Does it make a difference if the aircraft is operated under 135 vs. 91?

I have been a PIC on corporate jets since having 2500-3000hrs (guess) Anything from a Learjet - Westwind - DA900EX - Global Express - DA7X.

Both 135 and 91, Insurance was never an issue...granted the last 135 flight I did was about 7 yrs ago, I dont know how things have changed since.

A type rating and sim school was all that was ever required. Hell, Im not even a very good pilot...:bawling:

Good Luck.
 

BoilerUP

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Gulfstream 200 said:
Hell, Im not even a very good pilot...:bawling:

Glad I'm not the only one! :laugh:

FWIW, I was a PIC on a Part 91 Citation II with about 2300tt.
 

NCherches

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PS - Your uncle will not loose a little money... he will loose a lot!
 
Last edited:

NCherches

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Anyone can get insurance on anything for the right premium...
 

Headwind

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I think the question here is who deals with the insurance company. If it's you then you can work these things out or deal with another insurance company. If it's someone other than you I guess you just hope they know what they are doing.
My owner does not deal with maintenance, insurance, FBO, etc because thats my job.
I have started, as PIC, on one turbo prop and three jets with 0 time in type and never had a problem with insurance.
I feel my insurance agent works with me, not against me and I've been with him over 20 years.

HEADWIND
 

Pez D. Spencer

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I have about 1800 jet PIC.

Ballpark, how much does a FSI or simuflite course cost. How long does it take? Again, for a Citation, Hawker, or Falcon?

Call FSI's 800 number and tell them you are researching type costs for a potential aircraft buy -- they will gladly give you the costs. Also, if you are purchasing a new aircraft or if you go through the manufacturer for a "pre-owned," they (the mfr) usually include two pilot type ratings and one mechanic's training with the purchase.
 
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