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Threat of Strike after Easter Holiday

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
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Showdown looms at Delta
Pilots say they could be on strike after holiday weekend if ruling on labor pact goes against them; management vows to fight to keep pilots on the job.
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
April 10, 2006: 1:55 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Delta Air Lines and its pilots union could soon be flying into uncharted legal territory that could determine if the pilots go on strike and whether the nation's No. 2 air carrier stays in business.
Both the Air Line Pilots Association and Delta management say they hope to reach an agreement on a new labor deal in talks set for this week. And most airline analysts still think it's unlikely the situation will escalate to the point of a strike and shut down of the airline, which flies more than 300,000 passenger a day on about 1,700 daily flights.


But if talks fail to reach agreement, there is not much that's clear about what would happen next.
The union is arguing that if an arbitration panel weighing its contract with Delta rules against it in the next week, it intends to go on strike, even if it means the bankrupt airline must halt operations permanently. The only thing it won't say is when such a strike would start, only that it would be some time after April 17, or after the upcoming holiday weekend.
"We will strike when we determine it is prudent and advisable," said union spokeswoman Kelly Collins. She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its 6,000 members six-figure jobs, other than to point to a union statement that, "We will not capitulate to these demands based on a fear of what may lie ahead. We understand the risks."
On the other side is Delta management, which argues that it needs the panel to give it the power to throw out the current labor deal with the pilots. But it says it hopes to keep negotiating to reach a new concession pact with the union, even if it is given that power. And it is arguing that even if the current labor deal is thrown out, a strike by the pilots union would be illegal under the Railway Labor Act, (RLA) the unique labor law that covers both railroads and airlines.
"We believe that a strike would not be legal until all the processes of the RLA are complete, that includes mediation and a 30-day cooling off period," said Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks. "If there's a strike, we would be ready to seek all appropriate legal remedies. A pilot strike that is not halted by the court would be fatal to Delta Air Lines."
Collins not only disputes management's contention that a strike would be illegal, she says the union believes it will be without a valid contract if the panel rules against the union.
"Our position is that if the panel upholds management's motion to reject the contract, it's like a court ruling a spouse's petition for a divorce," she said. "Once a court validates a divorce decree, you're divorced."
Amazingly enough, even with the long history of bankrupt airlines and railroads, there is no example a bankruptcy court voiding a labor agreement reached under the RLA. So whether a court or President Bush could order an immediate end to a pilots strike is not certain.
"How bankruptcy of a carrier impacts whether a union can legally strike under the terms of the Railway Labor Act is a matter for the courts," is the official statement of the National Mediation Board, which overseas that act which covers the two sectors.
The union and management agreed to let the panel, rather than the bankruptcy judge, decide whether the company could get out of the labor agreement, but they've agreed on very little publicly since then.
The panel's deadline is April 15, at the start of the holiday weekend. But it is not likely to announce a decision until after the holiday weekend.
Delta says the average pay for a Delta pilot was $157,000 last year, even after the members there took nearly a one-third pay cut in October 2004 in an unsuccessful effort to keep the airline out of bankruptcy court.
The union said much of that pay was due to extra hours of flying due to short staffing at the carrier, as well as the high pay of its most senior pilots.


"There are thousands of pilots who never get anywhere close to that," said ALPA's Collins.


The airline and union agreed to ANOTHER 14 percent pay cut of its remaining pay package in December 2005, and management is seeking additional cuts that would raise that second concession to 18 percent.
But Collins said that even though the wage concession being sought by Delta at this time is only a fraction of what the union had already agreed to, other changes in work rules, scheduling and benefits make management's current demands unacceptable.
"Pay is just part of the contract," said Collins. "The work rule changes are egregious. The benefit changes are egregious."



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
I love this statement from above

She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its "6,000 members six-figure jobs,"



They want us to all make less than six figures. And, with the latest 15% pay cut, it is harder to make six figures for most FOs, except maybe the senior 764 or 777 FOs that could probably hold Captain anyway.


You gotta love the press.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its "6,000 members six-figure jobs,"



They want us to all make less than six figures. And, with the latest 15% pay cut, it is harder to make six figures for most FOs, except maybe the senior 764 or 777 FOs that could probably hold Captain anyway.


You gotta love the press.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Go get'em General. I wish the weak brothers and sisters at NWA had followed your example.

Nu
 
NuGuy said:
Go get'em General. I wish the weak brothers and sisters at NWA had followed your example.

Nu

It's tough when you still have your senior guys grasping to their pension promises. We lost an unbelievable 2300 Captains in 18 months, when we normally lose 125 a year to age 60. That is the difference. Good luck to you guys too, and vote NO if you don't like the TA.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Good Luck General.
 
"The average income was $157,000."


Now, I want the press to print what the AVERAGE executive income is. They are the ones that have caused this mess, not the pilots.
 
Good luck General...i have a lot of buds there and they are pissed...do what u have to...management will crumble...lead the way back!
 
CaptainMark said:
Good luck General...lead the way back!



I think we're all rooting for the pilots to do what you must. Just don't accept anything less than what you think is right. You hold on your shoulders a great deal of power over the future of the industry.
 
GIVE EM HELL!!!

on another forum i'm on we were talking about how yall are going around cleaning out your lockers. it was suggested there that DAL pilots should not only remove all their belongings, but they leave a special gift for the airline. What says "we're gonna strike.... seriously" better than a paper bag full of poop?

i didnt think of it, sounds interesting though :)
 
You get what you negotiate... At least the DAL pilots have the ball$ to stick up for themselves unlike so many others in our business... Good luck!!!!!
 
Foregive me ahead of time as this may have already been answered a thousand times but what are the chances of a Presidential Emergency Board being imposed to stop a strike??

Good luck, this fight is for all of us, not just Delta any longer.
 
MJG said:
Foregive me ahead of time as this may have already been answered a thousand times but what are the chances of a Presidential Emergency Board being imposed to stop a strike??

Good luck, this fight is for all of us, not just Delta any longer.

With Bush in office you have to assume pretty high likelyhood.

Good luck to all you Delta guys.
 
MJG said:
Foregive me ahead of time as this may have already been answered a thousand times but what are the chances of a Presidential Emergency Board being imposed to stop a strike??

Good luck, this fight is for all of us, not just Delta any longer.

Zero. The 30 day cooling off period and the PEB rules only apply to normal, section 6 negotiations, which this most certainly is not.

As soon as a judge (or in this case the arbitration panel) decides the PWA is bye bye, then it its fun-time.

That said, and assuming that this thing goes the Full Monty, you can bet there will be a rash of venue shopping by DAL management to get a TRO, even if it means filing in the City of Atlanta Municipal Traffic Court., which can be just as quickly appealed by a higher court by ALPA. Mix this in with what will be, no doubt, a huge amount of political pressure from the Bush Administration and you have a real interesting day.

My advice? Buy popcorn and beer.


Nu
 
The key point is that if the contract is voided, there is no union contract. Unless the Republican Administration is willing to pass a law putting DALPA into forced slave labor and send the sheriff out haul in the miscreants, then I think it's a moot point. The key point is if DALPA is not willing to blink.
 
Draginass said:
The key point is that if the contract is voided, there is no union contract. Unless the Republican Administration is willing to pass a law putting DALPA into forced slave labor and send the sheriff out haul in the miscreants, then I think it's a moot point. The key point is if DALPA is not willing to blink.

Sonny Perdue is probably on the line to Bush, allegedly a close ally, for his intervention.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/images/20050722-6_w9w6910jpg-515h.html

I would be surprised if zero, none, zilch involvement occurs on the part of politicians.

"George, I need some help. Seems that these here pilots are trying to conduct them a strike, and this is really gonna put a hurting on the great state of Georgia. We have been friends a long time, and you can understand my situation being a former governor of Texas. Anything you can do is sure appreciated"

etc etc
 
General Lee said:
Showdown looms at Delta
Pilots say they could be on strike after holiday weekend if ruling on labor pact goes against them; management vows to fight to keep pilots on the job.
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
April 10, 2006: 1:55 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Delta Air Lines and its pilots union could soon be flying into uncharted legal territory that could determine if the pilots go on strike and whether the nation's No. 2 air carrier stays in business.
Both the Air Line Pilots Association and Delta management say they hope to reach an agreement on a new labor deal in talks set for this week. And most airline analysts still think it's unlikely the situation will escalate to the point of a strike and shut down of the airline, which flies more than 300,000 passenger a day on about 1,700 daily flights.


But if talks fail to reach agreement, there is not much that's clear about what would happen next.
The union is arguing that if an arbitration panel weighing its contract with Delta rules against it in the next week, it intends to go on strike, even if it means the bankrupt airline must halt operations permanently. The only thing it won't say is when such a strike would start, only that it would be some time after April 17, or after the upcoming holiday weekend.
"We will strike when we determine it is prudent and advisable," said union spokeswoman Kelly Collins. She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its 6,000 members six-figure jobs, other than to point to a union statement that, "We will not capitulate to these demands based on a fear of what may lie ahead. We understand the risks."
On the other side is Delta management, which argues that it needs the panel to give it the power to throw out the current labor deal with the pilots. But it says it hopes to keep negotiating to reach a new concession pact with the union, even if it is given that power. And it is arguing that even if the current labor deal is thrown out, a strike by the pilots union would be illegal under the Railway Labor Act, (RLA) the unique labor law that covers both railroads and airlines.
"We believe that a strike would not be legal until all the processes of the RLA are complete, that includes mediation and a 30-day cooling off period," said Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks. "If there's a strike, we would be ready to seek all appropriate legal remedies. A pilot strike that is not halted by the court would be fatal to Delta Air Lines."
Collins not only disputes management's contention that a strike would be illegal, she says the union believes it will be without a valid contract if the panel rules against the union.
"Our position is that if the panel upholds management's motion to reject the contract, it's like a court ruling a spouse's petition for a divorce," she said. "Once a court validates a divorce decree, you're divorced."
Amazingly enough, even with the long history of bankrupt airlines and railroads, there is no example a bankruptcy court voiding a labor agreement reached under the RLA. So whether a court or President Bush could order an immediate end to a pilots strike is not certain.
"How bankruptcy of a carrier impacts whether a union can legally strike under the terms of the Railway Labor Act is a matter for the courts," is the official statement of the National Mediation Board, which overseas that act which covers the two sectors.
The union and management agreed to let the panel, rather than the bankruptcy judge, decide whether the company could get out of the labor agreement, but they've agreed on very little publicly since then.
The panel's deadline is April 15, at the start of the holiday weekend. But it is not likely to announce a decision until after the holiday weekend.
Delta says the average pay for a Delta pilot was $157,000 last year, even after the members there took nearly a one-third pay cut in October 2004 in an unsuccessful effort to keep the airline out of bankruptcy court.
The union said much of that pay was due to extra hours of flying due to short staffing at the carrier, as well as the high pay of its most senior pilots.


"There are thousands of pilots who never get anywhere close to that," said ALPA's Collins.


The airline and union agreed to ANOTHER 14 percent pay cut of its remaining pay package in December 2005, and management is seeking additional cuts that would raise that second concession to 18 percent.
But Collins said that even though the wage concession being sought by Delta at this time is only a fraction of what the union had already agreed to, other changes in work rules, scheduling and benefits make management's current demands unacceptable.
"Pay is just part of the contract," said Collins. "The work rule changes are egregious. The benefit changes are egregious."



Bye Bye--General Lee





Best wishes ,General. Hoping you guys prevail in your fight against management incompetence. One quick question....


Do you know if this Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks is the same guy that
was spokesman for Continental during the Lorenzo era ? Good luck. Hit 'em hard!!



PHXFLYR:cool:
 
johnsonrod said:
You get what you negotiate... At least the DAL pilots have the ball$ to stick up for themselves unlike so many others in our business... Good luck!!!!!

I sure am glad the Delta pilots are willing to take one in the chin and show these corporate leaders who's running the show.

The Delta Pilots may be out out of a job soon and will probably never be able to fly professionally again, but at least they'll have made their point!
 
Buckaroo said:
I sure am glad the Delta pilots are willing to take one in the chin and show these corporate leaders who's running the show.

The Delta Pilots may be out out of a job soon and will probably never be able to fly professionally again, but at least they'll have made their point!

That sounds pretty close to scab talk.

You just don't get it, do you? Working without a contract would be worse than no job at all.

This is not just about the Delta pilots . . . Every airline management tool is watching this one very, very carefully. Thank god it came down to the Delta pilots, who seem willing to make a stand.

I'm betting that the Delta pilots win this one, and I hope this will be the turning point in this cycle.
 
Ty Webb said:
That sounds pretty close to scab talk.

You just don't get it, do you? Working without a contract would be worse than no job at all.

This is not just about the Delta pilots . . . Every airline management tool is watching this one very, very carefully. Thank god it came down to the Delta pilots, who seem willing to make a stand.

I'm betting that the Delta pilots win this one, and I hope this will be the turning point in this cycle.

Ty is correct here. We will only strike if they succeed in throwing out our contract, which means no more seniority list, no more merger protection, no more fragmentation protection, no more scope, no more NOTHING. It really wouldn't be worth flying if that happens. It is better to shut it down. Now, I do believe they will throw us a bone at the last minute in the form of a TA, and it will be interesting to see if the first one will pass. We have a lot of angry pilots out there.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
PHXFLYR said:
Do you know if this Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks is the same guy that
was spokesman for Continental during the Lorenzo era ? Good luck. Hit 'em hard!!

He is one and the same.

FYI, Jack Gallehger, the lead attorney in the 1113 case for Delta, was also an attorney for Lorenzo and not surprising, primary worked on voiding the labor contracts.
 
General Lee said:
She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its "6,000 members six-figure jobs,"



They want us to all make less than six figures. And, with the latest 15% pay cut, it is harder to make six figures for most FOs, except maybe the senior 764 or 777 FOs that could probably hold Captain anyway.


You gotta love the press.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's the communist news network for ya. Rampers, FA's, Pilot's...Skilled and unskilled labor should be making the same in their mind. We'll never have the publics support so screw'em, do what you gotta do. Good luck guy's.
 
Ty Webb said:
T

This is not just about the Delta pilots . . . Every airline management tool is watching this one very, very carefully. Thank god it came down to the Delta pilots, who seem willing to make a stand.

I'm betting that the Delta pilots win this one, and I hope this will be the turning point in this cycle.

Ty - It just hit me - the gravity of our (Delta although I am still frickin furloughed) situation - you hit the nail on the head. EVERY airline management team is watching. Sad thing is - they should be worried about running the airline and it wouldnt come to this...but...
 
General Lee said:
She said notice of a strike could range from a few hours to 30 days. She wouldn't comment on the view that a strike would mean an end to Delta, and its "6,000 members six-figure jobs,"



They want us to all make less than six figures. And, with the latest 15% pay cut, it is harder to make six figures for most FOs, except maybe the senior 764 or 777 FOs that could probably hold Captain anyway.


You gotta love the press.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Seems like the liberals in the US want to move to a lowest common denominator-type of system. "waaaaa he makes too much money and I don't..cut his paaay..aaaah"
Ya know....a great Rush song talked about this.

The Trees.

I'll post the lyrics - for you non Rush fans - I guess the pilots are the oaks..


http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rush/119968.html
 

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