Threat of Strike after Easter Holiday

[PHXFLYR]

He is one and the same.

FYI, Jack Gallehger, the lead attorney in the 1113 case for Delta, was also an attorney for Lorenzo and not surprising, primary worked on voiding the labor contracts.

That's what I was thought. Amazing how these '"corporate losers" keep showing up over and over again. Best wishes to you Delta guys. What can I do to help?


PHXFLYR

 

[Buckaroo]

You just don't get it, do you? Working without a contract would be worse than no job at all.

Oh, I get it alright.
I also understand how market forces work. Pilots deserve to get paid whatever the market will bear. When the market would bear $250,00 and up salaries, you guys were fine with it. Now that the market will not bear those rates, you cry foul.
You all are a bunch of morons if you don't understand that basic economic principle.

 

[Sig]

You all are a bunch of morons if you don't understand that basic economic principle.

That IS the basic economic principle, dingus. Instead of an invisible hand, it's a very visible middle finger- the labor won't bear the wages the "market" is trying to flinagle and foist upon them.

 

[Ty Webb]

Pilots deserve to get paid whatever the market will bear. When the market would bear $250,00 and up salaries, you guys were fine with it. Now that the market will not bear those rates, you cry foul.
You all are a bunch of morons if you don't understand that basic economic principle.

The FlightInfo Board has a new Idiot. All Hail Buckaroo, King Idiot.

The plane I fly (737-700) averages 100 pax. Those people are paying about $2.75/hr for the services of two pilots. On a ATL-LAX flight, that means they are paying about $12. for the crew. In other words, cut my pay in half, and the customer saves $6. on a $200-$300. fare.

Pilot pay isn't the issue here. Greed, waste and incompetence are, not to mention jealous "deuce-bags" like yourself who are always willing to blame their colleagues who have negotiated better pay and working conditions than themselves.



.

 

[AceCrackshot]

I will often disagree with Ty, but not now. He just wrote one of the most insightful Flightinfo.com posts ever...

We, the crew, are a minimal cost in the operation of an aircraft. We have just become one of the easiest ones to cut. There are variety of reasons for that, but the fact is that ALPA was founded to take pilot pay out of the competitive formula for airlines. The last few years have seen aggressive means taken by management to slash pilot wages and benefits.

Finally, there is a battlefield, rather than a surrender table. Finally.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Posted by General Lee:
It's tough when you still have your senior guys grasping to their pension promises. We lost an unbelievable 2300 Captains in 18 months, when we normally lose 125 a year to age 60.

I find it hard to believe this figure, that would include nearly every Captain on the line. Your figure of 125/year is wrong. These are the projected figures from some years ago, without figuring medical retirements, they should be close.

2001 - 331
2002 - 398
2003 - 261
2004 - 234
2005 - 190

Your ultimate goal seems to place blame or guilt on senior pilots for protecting their pensions and retiring early. If they don't, no pension and who will support them, the furloughed guys, those still on the line? Should they stand on principle and say, "I'll stay", even though I and my family will suffer for the next 25 years of retirement? Give me a break. Most of these pilots have 35 - 38 years invested in their careers. They have an obligation to themselves and their familes to preserve what they have earned.

 

[General Lee]

Posted by General Lee:
It's tough when you still have your senior guys grasping to their pension promises. We lost an unbelievable 2300 Captains in 18 months, when we normally lose 125 a year to age 60.

I find it hard to believe this figure, that would include nearly every Captain on the line. Your figure of 125/year is wrong. These are the projected figures from some years ago, without figuring medical retirements, they should be close.

2001 - 331
2002 - 398
2003 - 261
2004 - 234
2005 - 190

Your ultimate goal seems to place blame or guilt on senior pilots for protecting their pensions and retiring early. If they don't, no pension and who will support them, the furloughed guys, those still on the line? Should they stand on principle and say, "I'll stay", even though I and my family will suffer for the next 25 years of retirement? Give me a break. Most of these pilots have 35 - 38 years invested in their careers. They have an obligation to themselves and their familes to preserve what they have earned.

That 125 figure is what I was told from an assistant chief in the ATL CPO. He said it was an average. And, I am glad the super senior guys have left. Good for them. They deserved their money, and if they got some, great. The NW guys do not have that choice. It also gives us a clearer voice now because that pension issue is NOT the major issue now, and that changes the ball game for management. We now want other things as primary, like scope, compared to NW and the others who go after a false promise like the pensions. And, those guys leaving probably helped avoid more furloughs on the bottom of our current list. But, that all could be moot next week.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[captain caveman]

You want executive salaries? - Here ya go.........

Top 10 International ALPA Leaders & Staff (by Salary) NameTitle Total Compensation

That's not that much money, buckaroo. Good thing you can't fly an airplane.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

A letter to Delta pilots from Tampa reservations agent

Tue, 04/11/2006 - 4:18pm
http://www.thecitizen.com/user/46
I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Fla., and I thought that it might be beneficial to express to you what many of us on the front lines feel about the pilots’ position regarding a strike.
I don’t write this to attack you in any way, and in fact, I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents.
I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut, and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.
That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self-serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA Web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is “Our Airline.”
I beg to differ. It is not only “your” airline. There are about 6,000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only affect you, but 41,000 other people.
I am certain we could have a healthy debate about contracts and fairness, what you have and have not given, what the company has done or not done ad nauseam. I don’t doubt that there is some validity to your position. No side can be completely right in such a matter.
But the bottom line is that this is not the same industry that it was 10 years ago. 9-11, the advent of low-cost carriers, changes in the dynamics of business travel and rising fuel prices, among other things, have altered the dynamics of the industry forever and an airline simply cannot sustain itself with the cost structure it was once able to.
I find it difficult to believe that if you shut down our airline, the people you represent are going to be able to walk out on the street and find jobs making what they would make even if you accept Delta’s concession in toto.
One line in your letter caught my attention: “It is a sad footnote in Delta’s history that in a business where people matter...”
To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact; 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on.
We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was.
Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8 percent of the workforce has power over the rest of us, that 7.8 percent of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2 percent of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.
I think I am pretty typical of most of the front-line Delta employees. I made less than $30,000 last year. I have taken pay and benefit cuts to stay with Delta.
Why? Because I enjoy my job, I enjoy the ability to travel and I have found Delta to be a good company to work for. But, at what I make, I don’t have a cushion. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck and I am basically up the proverbial creek if that paycheck stops, even for a short time.
I would guess that most of your pilots have the means to handle a temporary period of unemployment, but most of us on the customer service side do not have that luxury. Is your union going to help me pay my rent and child support if you choose to strike and run this airline out of business?
You have complained that you believe that the company views the threat of a strike as “saber rattling” or empty threats, but I get the impression that you believe the claim that a strike would force a liquidation of the company as an idle threat as well.
I have a background in business and a degree in accounting and let me assure you, these are not empty words. Delta Air Lines does not have the resources to survive even a short strike.
If one looks at the situation objectively, one has to conclude that the pilots’ position is based either on ignorance to reality or that you simply do not care what happens to YOUR airline. Either way, it seems pretty foolish from this vantage point.
Finally, I should add that I work in special member services and spend my day talking almost exclusively to medallion level frequent fliers. I talk to between 60 and 100 people a day and I am asked multiple times each day what I think about the possibility of a strike.
In all of the months that this has been going on, I have yet to ever have one passenger state that they support your position. Most are sympathetic, but state the obvious: the industry has changed and you would be foolish to strike.
I don’t expect this to change your mind, or alter your position, but I felt that it was important, as you move forward, to be reminded of the responsibility you have taken upon yourself.
You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go.
There is only one word that can be used for a course of action that would negatively impact so many people in such a profound way: selfish.
I urge you to endeavor to find some solution to this issue short of shutting down the airline. It is simply not the right thing to do.
Mike Maharrey
Tampa, Fla.

 

[scoreboard]

A letter to Delta pilots from Tampa reservations agent

Tue, 04/11/2006 - 4:18pm

I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Fla., I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents.
I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut, and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.
That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self-serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA Web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is “Our Airline.”
I beg to differ. It is not only “your” airline. There are about 6,000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only affect you, but 41,000 other people. Mike Maharrey
Tampa, Fla.

Dear Mike, your home every night, you sleep in your bed every night, when was the last reservation sim check you took which would decide if you kept or lost your job, when was the last phyisical you took that determined if you kept your job, when was the last time your reservation skills determined if 100-400 people lived or died, did it take you 15-20 years of reservation training at another regional/cargo/commuter to developp the skills to get to where you are now, when was the last school play/wedding/anniversary you missed because of your job, when was the last time.. oh i give up...

Mike, yes they deserve every penny and some, yet you want to be selfish and deny them thier due. Who is self serving now???

 

[warbirdfinder]

Just a few responses to Michael Maharrey's letter:

An answer to Michael R. Maharrey

With Respect: Michael,

If there had been more people like you around during the Revolutionary War, we would have a King now and be subjects of the Crown.

If there had been more people like you during the second world war we would be speaking Japanese or German.

People who cave in to pressure from threats of others are always losers.

Those who stand up and say enough is enough will win.

You need a little faith in the fact that if your job is worth saving then the people who are in a position to make decisions above you will recognize that this is one the pilots are going to win and therefore they will not be foolish enough to cause a strike by voiding the contract.

If you had a graduate degree, which an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate is equivalent to, you would be making more than 30,000 per year also. Or you could have gotten a medical degree or a Law degree and also made more. Or you could have become a CEO and made millions at the expense of people like yourself.

When the pilots gave back 32 1/2% prior to the bankruptcy and were told that by doing so they would be avoiding bankruptcy, the company's management lost all credibility

If I had to go to war or engage in any other type of struggle, you don't sound like someone I would like to have by my side.

Respectfully,

Adrian Blackmon
Delta (Ret.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I believe this letter to be very thought provoking. I hope the pilots will think so too.

Jane Wood
Spouse of a retired pilot

We went through some tough times too with TWA and Western Airlines.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I HOPE BOB MILLERS LETTER IS SENT TO MR. MIKE MAHARREY TO DIGEST.....I ALSO WANT HIM NOT TO FORGET THAT WHEN THE PILOTS GOT THEIR RAISES IN THE PAST SO DID THE "FRONT LINES". THANK GOD FOR THE PILOTS. AND, IT'S ALSO ABOUT CHOICES WE MAKE IN OUR LIVES. MIKE, YOU COULD'VE BEEN A PILOT,TOO, BUT YOU CHOSE THE FRONT LINES.
"glenn and mary
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

With all due respect: I and other pilots have answered to the country and our commanders when we were in combat, we answered to the FAA and our company, and in addition to many others, we answered to our families for being absent when other people were home with their families. Now I am retired and may lose a lot but I sure as hell don t answer to a reservations agent in Tampa. And I have over the years taken the taunts of many fellow employees-employees that I would do just about anything for.
From: "Jerry Bartlett" <[email protected]>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TO: Mike Maharrey
SUBJ: Your assessment of the pilot group

Michael:

With a degree in accounting and a background in business, I am sure that you can appreciate that through "years of give backs" to Delta, there should be a NO-GO time to call the troops into a circle. You have benefited from the "me-to" clause for many years. When you were the highest paid ground employees in the airline industry, the Delta pilot's contract was responsible for your raises. You had no one to represent you other than the only contract employees on the property, i.e.: the Delta pilots. The pilot group was aware of your hard work and your dedication to the Delta Family. When the corporate Raiders came, (Allen and his hoodlums), the pilot group warned of the impending crisis. No one heeded our warnings save the Flight Attendants. I think, Michael, that you have not been around the industry long enough to realize that it is an aging, rusting pile of "dung". No one knows how to compete, control yields, or treat employees, the MOST important asset that a service industry has. If I had your qualifications, I would head for the nearest door and start making a decent living for my family and not crying because you are making $16.00 per hour. I hate to say it, but the airline industry is on the downside of earnings and customer satisfaction. I suggest you use your degree and talent in another field, I am.

Respectfully,

Pat McGirl
MD-11 (ret)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DAVE:
I attempted to read the Maharrey letter with some degree of objectivity. However, words such as "myopic" and "selfish" lost me; they are a thinly disguised version of the ad hominum argument, typically used when the protagonist has no legitimate points to make.
No great surprise here, for our PC society rewards indolence/mediocrity and penalizes achievement; the personal attack most certainly has graduated from mediocre to "legitimate".

The green-eyed monster of envy is alive and well in the thinking of Maharrey, et al. Envy has often been used by what has passed for "management" during my four decades of association with Delta. The Maharrey letter could very well have been written in a red brick building off Virginia Avenue.

Finally, Maharrey and his ilk fail to realize that management's goal is no contract and no union. This would deprive the line pilot of the protections needed to enforce a safety environment which can easily be compromised by short-sighted corporations cited in the Whitesell letter.

THIS IS ABOUT MORE THAN MONEY!!!

Tom Kenna
B-767/Lax
Retired: 2/2003
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dave, just to add to the Strike Opinions, What Mr. Maharrey is saying to Capt. Moak and the rest of the Delta Pilots basically is "shut up, take whatever Delta Management chooses to pay you under whatever working conditions they demand, and solder on so that I and my 47,000 other Delta employees can keep our jobs"! I have a different proposal. If Mr. Maharrey and the rest of the 47,000 Delta Employees would just contribute, say, $250.00 per month, then that would more than make up the gap between Management's 330 million demand, and the Pilot's 140 million offer. This $250.00 per month still would not equal the percentage pay and benefit cuts the Pilot's have had to shoulder. Then, all would be sweetness and Light! NO? Steve Gray
From: [email protected]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dave, I feel compelled to make a short reply to the lettrs that Mr. Maharrey and Mr. Miller wrote. With the exception of a possible strike being the main issue, I think they are talking about two different issues. Mr Maharrery is addressing the affect that a strike will have on the company and therefore on the 41,000 employees other than the pilots. I think he is absolutely correct. Mr, Miller is pointing out, quite correctly, that poor management along with other factors (fuel costs, 911,etc.) are the cause of the Chapter 11 situation. However, we are where we are and a strike will only exacerbate the situation. I hope the pilot group is not too young to remember that this is almost identical to what happened at Eastern many years ago, and will truly realize what a strike will actually do to so many families. Thanks Dave. Clyde Taylor, Capt./ Ret.