Thoughts on Interns

[100LL... Again!]

Even though I have a few friends who have interned,

I still would prefer someone with some real-life experience as a real pilot in real weather, than a person with real-life experience in the office as a real office worker.

Remember, your sim check and oral specify the MINIMUM standard of profiency. They in NO WAY prove that you can really handle the real world environment when the going gets tough.

Don't forget - Every pilot who has ever had an accident or incident at an airline was current and qualified.

How about the (newer?) Rj ca who had the hard landing in, I think, Roanoke?

What about the jetstream vmca incident?

These folks all 'passed the test' in the sim.

Think twice, newbies, before you keep squawking about 'passing the same test' as the higher time pilots.

Not everything is tested.

 

[bvt1151]

careful there 100ll, there are tons of accidents involving extremely experienced pilots.

 

[100LL... Again!]

That is exactly my point:

The low -timers ,in their zeal to assert their 'readiness', frequently like to talk about how they pass the same checkrides as 'everybody else'.

We ALL KNOW that the check is a sample of some very basic skills, and that more than a few companies are somewhat relaxed come checkride time.

Again - the check is the MINIMUM. Find something else to crow about when describing how 'ready' you are.

 

[kj6991]

100LL. the thread is about thoughts on interns, so my post was about my internship and how much i am enjoying it. I'm still flight instructing and building my time just like everyone else, exept i really wanted this position and worked hard and i caught a break and happily ended up here. No, with 330 hours I am not as experienced as yourself with 4000TT, but at 21 years old i'm gaining valuable experience for 4 months sitting jumpseat,training flights,traveling,systems and re-current classes,brasilia/RJ sims,meeting everyone,learning the ropes,bidding times,crew scheduling,control tower,etc.etc.etc. My time to gain experience will come. if it's not the traditional freight or cargo way, then so be it. I never stated i was "ready" but you know what, being out here at 330TT has made me wanna work extra hard to prove myself when i do get on the line flying as a lower timer. this opportunity presented itself and i wanted it badly, so i took it, and wouldn't turn the other way in a heartbeat.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I was a former intern, and was lucky enough to be offered a job after I graduated college. My experience on the line has been this: Some people like interns, some people don't. Some people don't give a rats ass either way. Some people will judge you strictly by your flying skills and how you handle yourself in the cockpit, while others will brand you on the ass with "INTERN" and treat you like a piece of sh*t no matter how you fly. Some people will ask you if you were an intern as say "cool, that's a great way to work your way in and network" while others will say "way to beat the system." Then there are those who could care less where you came from as long as you don't a) Crash, b) Get Violated, or c) Be a company Neal rat.

It's very simple: Do what you feel is right. For me, I wanted the experience, and honestly had no idea that the opportunities which became available would ever exist. I was lucky. VERY lucky. If you do an internship and happen to be so fortunate to get a job due to your performance in those few months, then good for you! But don't get on the line and think you are hot sh*t and f*ck it up for the rest of us. Because it makes life hard for those of us who wanted to take an opportunity to learn, gain experience in the industry, and network, not to hop/skip/jump past everyone else.

[/rant]

 

[FlyChicaga]

Also, one more thing. Be prepared to work ten times as hard as the rest of the pilots in your new hire class who were not interns. People will always feel you don't deserve to be there, so you are really under the microscope for your first few years.

 

[SpocksBeard]

I try my hardest not to begrudge the interns the opportunities they have recieved. My college had very few internship programs and i didn't bother taking advantage of them anyway. I always thought it was much more valuable to just go get a paying job on the ramp or something for the company. You still learn how the company works and get familiar with airline ops but you are being paid and not treated like an intern. I have more respect for those working outside my pilot box because of it. Granted I didn't get to do all the gee whiz stuff like jumpseating and ground schools, etc.. but who cares? If your career goes in a decent direction you'll be doing that crap more than you can stand to soon enough anyway. As a flight instructor, so many of my students whined about not getting internships and all this other crap and they couldn't pay for flight lessons either. I couldn't understand why these people wouldn't go over to the local regional airline and try to just get a freaking job throwing bags. I also get tired of people assuming I was an intern because of my age. I got the jobs I've had simply because I made sure I was qualified and can write a d@mn good cover letter and resume.

 

[generaltso]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If you are going to do an internship, DO NOT waste it at a regional. Do one at a major (SWA, DAL, UAL, FEDEX, etc.)

 

[acaTerry]

If you are going to do an internship, DO NOT waste it at a regional. Do one at a major (SWA, DAL, UAL, FEDEX, etc.)

A few thoughts for you interns out there:

This guy probably does not have 1000 hrs and is NOT an airline pilot. He typed in 1000 hrs arbitrarily since its easy and quick. He is likely a fake. If he really does have 1000 hours, he has no real experience to speak from. So don't listen to him.
First, I did not know that majors had internships (they likely do not, but I could be wrong). If they do, it is likely that most will fail. There are airlines out there with 300 hour pilots flying 737's and Airbusses (Lufthansa as an example). But remember that these airlines are HIGHLY selective, and have a very militaristic training regimen. I know because I instructed at LFT for 3 years. These kids are better than the average 1200 hour U.S. pilot. I had a preconcieved notion about them before I worked there, but was proven wrong. And I'd sit in back of that 300 hour German FO any day. And BTW...the CA is NOT flying this thing single pilot.

Now, you interns have about 600-800 hours and want an airline job. Well, that's a start. I hope you make it. Most of us do not care that you got hired with such low time. All we ask for is that since you got in so quickly with relatively little struggle when compared to military pilots, flight instructor with 1500 dual given and box-haulers that you:
a) do not sign away the contract WE worked for
b) don't think you are so darn good because you are in that jet at so little flight time
c) don't feel that you DESERVE the job
d) don't ask us to play music, or expect us to "relax" on the company standards, etc because you think you know so much about airline flying, image, and safety
e) just realize how lucky you are to be in the spot you are in.

Honestly, the loud few who profess hatred of you interns have probably a little jealousy problem here. They, given the same opprtunity, would have done the same thing. But the many like me, who didn't even get to the regionals (or commuters as they were called back then) until we had well over 2000 hours, have been flying enough to not care HOW you got there, just that you adapt to your new job instead of trying to change it all, just because in all of 800 to 1200 hours you think you have so much to say.

Nobody hates you, some resent you because you got in fast. But the bigger problem is all the new low timers getting in who are trying to screw it all up by "bringing the industry up with the times", or will sign anything because they "want to fly a jet". Just leave it like it is, it's worked so far so let's just LEARN from our senior pilots instead of trying to educate them. They probably have more sick time than you have Total Time. Good luck.

 

[PUflight]

I did an internship at UAL. It's good for later on in the career but right now I think I would of chosen to do an internship at a regional. You gotta get started in the airline business first then worry about the future. I don't know if my UAL internship will ever pay off, yes I am guaranteed an interview there, but the question is when and if they will ever hire again!

 

[acaTerry]

Sorry you wasted that on UAL, but no matter. You still got a good look at it and I'm sure you'll do fine.

 

[FlyChicaga]

All we ask for is that since you got in so quickly with relatively little struggle when compared to military pilots, flight instructor with 1500 dual given and box-haulers that you:
a) do not sign away the contract WE worked for
b) don't think you are so darn good because you are in that jet at so little flight time
c) don't feel that you DESERVE the job
d) don't ask us to play music, or expect us to "relax" on the company standards, etc because you think you know so much about airline flying, image, and safety
e) just realize how lucky you are to be in the spot you are in.

But the bigger problem is all the new low timers getting in who are trying to screw it all up by "bringing the industry up with the times", or will sign anything because they "want to fly a jet". Just leave it like it is, it's worked so far so let's just LEARN from our senior pilots instead of trying to educate them. They probably have more sick time than you have Total Time. Good luck.

Right on brotha. Very well said.

 

[generaltso]

Regionals are a dime a dozen. Majors are the promised land.

At the majors you need every leg up you can get. Having that internship on your resume sets you apart.

Plan for the future, and don't waste time on a regional internship.

 

[kj6991]

I'm just doing everything I can to make myself competetive just like everyone else. This internship is only 4 months outta my life, and I'll be back at school flight instructing along with everyone else when I am done. I just felt like it was an excellent opportunity to get my foot in the door and learn as much as I could about my company and how a 121 operation is conducted. With competetion so high we need all we can to make our aspirations as a pilot nowdays. When i interview here, I'm not assured anything or taken lightly just because I was here for 4 months. I must meet requirements and pass just like the guy sitting right next to me. It's hard to make the correct decision and pick the perfect path to where you wanna get, I think you just gotta follow where you think is best and try to make to best decision with all options weighed out.

 

[BoilerUP]

Regionals are a dime a dozen. Majors are the promised land.

At the majors you need every leg up you can get. Having that internship on your resume sets you apart.

Plan for the future, and don't waste time on a regional internship.

Do you really have ANY idea what you are talking about???

US Airways just brought back their Flight Operations internship. Anybody who would take that, IMO, is a fool, because I think even Stevie Wonder can see U is doomed (sorry Airways/Express guys & gals). United just brought back their internship program as well, and while I think United will survive, I question any employment benefit one would get from it.

Major airline internships THAT I AM AWARE OF:

Alaska
Aloha
ASTAR Air Cargo
ATA
Continental
FedEx
Frontier
JetBlue (new program)
Northwest
Southwest
United
UPS
US Airways

While its true many of these companies have guaranteed interview clauses as part of their internships, how many of these major airlines will be hiring in the next 5-10 years? How many will even be around in 5-10 years?

I looked at the regionals for internships because I would get the most immediate benefit from it. I interviewed with ASA, Comair, ACA/Indy Air, and Chautauqua; I was selected for ACA and CHQ. Both were excellent opportunities to work for great companies, but I decided to accept a summer internship with CHQ for a multitude of reasons, the least of which was cost of living IND vs. IAD. Both are unpaid, as are many regional internships (biggest drawback).

Regional internship vs. majors, to each their own. I may have a letter saying I get a guaranteed interview at 2000TT and 500 turbine PIC after interning with a major, but honestly how will I stack up with the competition of military C-17 guys and RJ captains with 3000+ PIC? I say get a regional internship, bust your butt while there to impress the people you work for, and hope you are fortunate enough they lower their published minimums for you after interning. Get a seniority number, upgrade as quick as possible, and start getting the turbine PIC you need to get a major airline job, whenever hiring starts booming again.

In the end, you gotta do whats best for you....

IMHO