Those Crazy Sweedish Dash Drivers! (gear collapse)

[The_Russian]

-But on the first page of this thread that is exactly what you suggested the pilots were negilgent for NOT doing.

Doesn't this show that I'm listening? Everyone has been quick to accuse me of not absorbing the material presented.

 

[The_Russian]

I can see that some of you are doing the same. Most are not.

 

[JimNtexas]

Yep, I am sure you have evidence to back that statement up, right?

Certainly. You claim to be a professional pilot yet you advocate doing crazy things in an airplane you've never flown, things that are not authorized or safe, because you think you're some kind of Chuck Yeager in a skirt.

When pilots who actually fly the airplane you're babbling about explain in painful detail the certain tragic consequences of turning an airliner into a glider you just put your fingers in your ears and go 'LALALALALALA'.

You're a walking talking bag of hazardous attitudes.

I cease to think you are a pilot at all. You're probably a patient in some kind of mental institution who has computer access.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

I don't. It doesn't matter anyway. How and why did they get into a situation were they would get hurt in an emergency egress? Maybe it had something to do with departing the runway and crashing into a knoll.

Ok. Well we can armchair qb this thing to death. Here's what I think. The crew that had this on video did a good job. Could they have shut down the right engine to keep the props from turning into a flying ginsu knife collection. Yes. They could have. Could they have shut down both engines and kept it on the runway? I seriously doubt it. With both engines gone, no hyds, no ac power to power the pumps, no rudder, no nosewheel steering. Not good mojo in my book. Did the crew that shut down the # 2 engine in Vilnius careen off of the runway and into a grassy knoll where the shooter was hiding? I dunno. But they might have. With all that drag on that side, I don't care how good of a pilot you are, you're heading for the weeds. Could they have gone to a wider runway? Sure. Could they have called in fatigued because they just went through customs 5 times doing the sea-yyj shuttle and had just spent the last 2 hours waiting for their airplane cuz crew scheduling screwed up and forgot to notifiy the airport reserve guy that he had to fly and he was late cuz he was diddling the flight attendant in the back room? Maybe. All plausible.
And finally could they have disabled the ground spoilers before touchdown. I don't think so. There is a spring loaded switch in front of the captain. So it would only stay in the down position with a wow indication and the power levers at a low angle. You could have him hold the friggin switch, but if it were my ship, I'd be at the helm and not holding a friggin toggle switch.

One other point to consider. Had they shut down both engines prior to touchdown, they would have had NO directional control on the runway. They might have totally fireballed into the grassy knoll instead of just careeening into it at a relatively low speed. If I had been that crew, I don't think I'd have done anything different. They didnt know about the gear problem then, and I think they did the best they could with the info they had at the time. I'd buy em a beer, or shot of Aqua vitae at the bar. NO prob.

 

[The_Russian]

Certainly. You claim to be a professional pilot yet you advocate doing crazy things in an airplane you've never flown, things that are not authorized or safe, because you think you're some kind of Chuck Yeager in a skirt.

Wow. You are way off base here buddy. Why don't you read my posts. No one said anything about doing anything crazy. What is crazy about a soft touchdown, securing the engines, and trying to delay impact of the effected wing? Get bent, dude. You are following the masses and their misinterpretation.

When pilots who actually fly the airplane you're babbling about explain in painful detail the certain tragic consequences of turning an airliner into a glider you just put your fingers in your ears and go 'LALALALALALA'.

No I didn't. Re-read what I have written. I was asking a lot of questions. Most of the responses didn't answer the questions asked. Only a response including name calling and other childish remarks. In no way did suggest turning the airliner into a glider. You misrepresent my statements completely.

You're a walking talking bag of hazardous attitudes.

And you know that for a fact? You can discern that from one single topic debate? Ha!

I cease to think you are a pilot at all. You're probably a patient in some kind of mental institution who has computer access.

Well, I used to thing you were an objective contributer to this forum. Now I see otherwise. I used to respect your posts. After a few debates, I can see you are just like the rest of these people.

 

[quinnlake]

Doesn't this show that I'm listening? Everyone has been quick to accuse me of not absorbing the material presented.

I agree that you are listening. I suppose what I find most objectionable is that on you're early post you made instant assumptions about how they crew handled the emergency, and discount knowledge of the DASH systems as unimportant. I appreciate that you did not rise to personal attacks.

 

[DrewBlows]

Anyone think deactivating the roll/ground spoilers with the push off switch could have helped keep the wing flying a bit longer?

That's the first thing I though of, but my thought was maybe Bombardier will change the procedure, not "on my next gear unsafe landing I'm going to disable the ground spoilers". If Bombardier changes the procedure in the CRJ (not likely) I'll comply, otherwise I'm going by the book.

I'm not familiar with the spoiler system of the Q-400, but from a previous post it seems as though it would take one pilot physically holding the switch through touchdown and roll out. Not ideal. Perhaps Bombardier will change the switch and the procedure for future incidents.

 

[DashTrash400]

This is what we are talking about here. These are the things you are debating with me. You defend his reasoning for moving passengers but you wouldn't defend him if any similar precaution was taken? Including the possibility of shutting both engines down close to touchdown?

What?!?! It's not in the checklist and now it is OK? Get your story straight man. Is it OK or not OK for a crew to stray from the procedure to meet the extent of the emergency? Yes it is!

20/20 hindsight? Isn't that what we are doing now? Everyone is saying how bad this is, but another Captain just prevented injuries by analyzing and adjusting un-published procedures. To you he is the hero? Amazing.

We never ever said that one is confined by the QRH. Our point was basically that once you do something that's not only outside the QRH but not even on the same planet - like shut both engines down and killing every means of directional control you have - everything better turn out perfect and you'd better have a dang good excuse if it doesn't.

You've changed your tune considerable since this thread started. At first you were condemning the crew for being irresponsible and endangering their passengers, and now you're meekly asserting the right of a Captain to do something outside the QRH. Well, duh. I just hope you're never that Captain.

Awright, I'm done here. Debating kinda presupposes that both sides have the benefit of logic.

 

[LR25]

I havnt been this entertained in a long while on FI.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Nor do I want to fly with someone who can't read and interperet simple English.

Thanks in advance!

Hey Rush,

The spelling of your fore mentioned "simple" English seems to have you confused!

How can I read "your" English when you can't spell words like "interpret"?

C minus on the spelling dude........

Thanks for keeping all of us amused!
:laugh:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interpret

 

[My name is EARL]

The Russian you have to remember is not use to flying an advanced aircraft, all his hrs in MIG's, SU's and AN's are all steel and cables. Advanced technology for WWII aircraft. Thats how they won the cold war!

My question to you is it ok to let your kid fly the plane?

 

[Captzaahlie]

The Russian you have to remember is not use to flying an advanced aircraft, all his hrs in MIG's, SU's and AN's are all steel and cables. Advanced technology for WWII aircraft. Thats how they won the cold war!

My question to you is it ok to let your kid fly the plane?

I agree the ruskie has overdosed on the combat flight sim's........ because the electro-hydro -nuclear back up systems he refers to just don't seem to be part of our real airline world....

Heck yes it's OK to let your kid fly the plane, see my new avatar!

 

[Flying-Corporal]

Some idiot makes a non-sense comment and the whole thread turns into a discussion about it ... Incredible...

If QRH doesn't say anything about shutting the engines down, then don't do it.

If any line pilot comes up with his own "good sense" procedure in an emergency (instead of following the QRH) then I doubt any of us will pass our initial FO checkride.

Russian, are you sure you fly airplanes for living??? I don't mean Cessnas, MS Fsim, remote-control, etc.

 

[The_Russian]

Hey Rush,

The spelling of your fore mentioned "simple" English seems to have you confused!

How can I read "your" English when you can't spell words like "interpret"?

C minus on the spelling dude........

Thanks for keeping all of us amused!
:laugh:

Sorry for the spelling. A lot of responses with an early education in phonics doesn't help. I can do calculus in my head but grammer and spelling is a constant challenge.

 

[The_Russian]

We never ever said that one is confined by the QRH. Our point was basically that once you do something that's not only outside the QRH but not even on the same planet - like shut both engines down and killing every means of directional control you have - everything better turn out perfect and you'd better have a dang good excuse if it doesn't.

Right. There should be reasoning behind the decision.

You've changed your tune considerable since this thread started. At first you were condemning the crew for being irresponsible and endangering their passengers, and now you're meekly asserting the right of a Captain to do something outside the QRH. Well, duh.

Sure. IMHO, I still condemn them for not at least shutting down the right engine and not holding that wing off of the ground. As soon as that prop hit, they lost all directional control of that aircraft. Thankfully, the next crew used their heads and shut the prop down, staying on the runway this time. If you do a good comparison to other gear-up landings, you will notice how poor this one went compared to others.

I just hope you're never that Captain.

Thanks. I'm sure you can surmise my Captainship from a single discussion. Apparently eveyone else can too.

Awright, I'm done here. Debating kinda presupposes that both sides have the benefit of logic.

Right.