this company needs a pilots union!!!

[72Longhorn]

Hey Ya'll,

I've got a question for ya.

Has there ever been any FAR 135 operators successful at acquiring a union to represent the company pilots?

The company I currently work for really needs a union and I was wondering if anyone knows how to go about getting a union started.

72Longhorn

 

[avbug]

LH,

You probably don't want to hear this, but the chances are very slim. The power of a union is a bargaining power. It's either en masse with the power of a united large group of workers, or among the majority of very specialized workers. Among pilots, unless all pilots belonged to a collective bargaining organization (something very unlikely, and dangerous), unionizing a small company would do little good. You could go so far as to strike, but the company would either lay off, downsize, or close. Then reopen under a different name.

You sound like you have a concern. Perhaps addressing the actual concern here would be more productive. Pay? Safety? Duty times? There are ways to address these issues without necessarily needing a union. In some cases, a union is a nessary evil, but in many others, it's a monster. It's one of those cases of "be careful of what you wish for."

 

[LAPD Airship]

Either FlexJet or ExecJet are union, but they are probably a bit larger than your carrier I would guess.

 

[Freight Dog]

From my understanding, Ameriflight is organizing under Teamsters (bleechhh). But they have like over 200 aircraft and over 200 pilots.

 

[pilotyip]

watch out

The teamsters organized Zantop in 1996 and the owners shut the company down in 1997, laid off 150+ pilots. Watch out what you ask for, particularily with a privately held company i.e not publically traded, you don't have much power.

 

[72Longhorn]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess since I came from an FAR 121 airline, I expect things to be done a little more professionally here at this FAR 135 operation.

Avbug, hit some good points that have me bothered. One, is the pay raise, there is none, unless you upgrade; Two, Schedules are M-F 5 days a week; Three, one sick day per year; and four, duty times are maxed out with the minimum required rest. Basically the life $tyle sucks and so does the money.

I know I shouldn't be complaining, because of all the current lay offs, but I too, was laid off and had to go back to 135 flying.

Thanks for hearing me out.

72Longhorn

 

[avbug]

SNAFU.

Sitaution normal for many 135 departments.

I worked for a 135 operation that hired a furloughed 121 pilot. She came aboard with a lot of preconceived notions, and expectations. One weekend, she was on call for the weekend. No flying, but she was notified that if a flight came up, she would be first out.

The following Monday, she went straight to the FAA and complained that she had no rest and had been on duty for 48 straight hours. She was completely out of line, but felt that it would be okay to pull a stunt like that. She got scheduled for straight nights after that.

Considering that she hardly ever flew, and had only to take a flight if one came up once in a blue moon, she had it good from the get-go. Her lack of understanding and impetuousness burned it for everyone.

Without commenting on the righteousness of her actions, let me say that the industry has fallen into a mould, and it is hardened by economics and to some degree, "tradition." Some things just "are." I am all for seeking improvement, but by the same token, there are ways to accomplish this, and ways not to do so. This particular young lady executed a massive faux paux. She should have gone to her supervisor and failing that gone up the chain within the company before doing something so drastic as going to the FAA.

I should note that the company didn't hold her efforts at change against her, only the way she went about it.

As far as 5 days a week, don't complain. Many 135 personnel are 24/7/365, period. The way it's shown on paper may be different, but thems the realities. Maxed out duty times are the norm. I've worked for many operators who had no sick time allowed, and I have been told outright, "our pilots are not allowed to get sick." I flew for one operator who allowed no time off for the first year (some flexibility for time off without pay). Nothing at all unusual, albeit unpleasant and sometimes unpallatable.

Very often I've seen regular 14 hour duty days. I've worked assignments that required 14 hours of HARD labor on the airplane when not flying, and right back at it after 10 hours rest, not to mention a number of other unpaid duties as part of the job. In salaried positions, it can be taken to the extreme. Again par for the course.

Ask virtually any inspector, and you'll get the same response; if it's unacceptable, quit. I disagree very strongly with this statement and attitude, but it's standard, and very, very common. As a function of economics, however, you're in the losing seat. The company calls the shots, and while unionization is certainly always feasible if you want it badly enough, chances are very good that it's just not worth it.

 

[publisher]

novell

Gee, working 5 days a week M-F, now there is a concept. And, just a few sick days, wow. And, long days.

Welcome to life for the rest of the world.

 

[bobbysamd]

M-F workweek

What's so bad about a five-day workweek? I do that now in my desk job. Basically, M-F (I've had to work a few Saturdays and Sundays - not many, though), 0630-1700, although, technically, I don't have to report until 8:30. One hour off for lunch. I do earn more flex days than the example.

I wouldn't mind a flying job like the example. I remember working plenty of six and seven-day weeks as a pilot. Perhaps instructing may not be regarded by some as "real" flying, but I still put in plenty of hours, with some shifts not being regular hours.

Pub, you and I agree on all fours on this one.

 

[flydog]

Publisher

You need to shut your pie hole when you clearly dont know what you are talking about.

When a pilot works 5 days it usually means they are away from home for 5 days working 14+ hr duty days not 8-5 like some office job. If you actually add up the time some of us 135 guys put in in a week it would equal 3 weeks of a normal office worker's.

If you work at a 121 carrier and you commute those 11-14 days off a month are eaten up very quickly commuting. Some pilots may only spend 5-6 days a month home with their family.

Being away from home 20 days a month is really harsh and it gets very old. Most 135 jobs are worse than that and I have worked many 25-27 day months.

In addition at most 135 departments you are on call 24/7 365 days a year with very few hard days off if any. How would you like to sit at home 365 days a year waiting for the office to call you? This includes Christmas, your wife's birthday, your kid's graduation, etc.

You really are a horse's ass. This reminds me of the time where you stated a King Air doesn't need deice boots in Florida because it warm.

I suggest next time you think before you open your hole to compare a 135 flying job to working behind a desk 9-5 (")