Thinking out loud on DHL and asking a few QQ's

shooter

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What do you think the chances of UPS calling up DHL, proposing a deal with no intention of ever going through with it just for DHL to open their book to them?

http://switchnow.ups.com/comparesolutions.html

Wow, did DHL ever screw themselves into a corner with a crazed raccoon.
 

bukakke

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just shows how desperate and stupid dhl really is, a classic example of "management gone wild"
 

TWA

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I heard a rumor today that the UPS deal had pretty much been abandoned due to the drastic drop in DHL volume over the past few months. That is just a rumor I heard today, so take it with a pound or so of salt.

This latest batch of UPS advertising does one of two things:
A. Confirms the deal has been abandoned, or
B. Is an attempt to show they are still "vigorously competing in the marketplace".
 

Bob Dylan

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I don't buy it that UPS double crossed DHL.

DHL volume is already being transported on UPS aircraft. The deal is already completed, and more will be announced after the election.
 

rotor&wing

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I don't buy it that UPS double crossed DHL.

DHL volume is already being transported on UPS aircraft. The deal is already completed, and more will be announced after the election.
Nice try Rhoid, er Bob.
 

shooter

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Even if this is just a display of UPS and DHL showing they are still competing, UPS proposed this deal to DHL. So by persuading DHL this is they way should go, DHL is now in a position to be killed off by the UPS "plan" with the UPS products including the international product. With or without UPS carriage of DHL volume, DHL product is so weak they may never survive.

There are so many not up for re-election that are opposed to this deal election day will not figure into the equation. Either its done or its not and election will not delay the announcement if it is done.
 

Publishers

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There was no great conspiracy theory here. Both sides knew what the other was doing and DHL was looking to save face and money but get out of a market they could not really get into. All we are talking about is are they dead today, or will it take until tomorrow.
 

shooter

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There was no great conspiracy theory here. Both sides knew what the other was doing and DHL was looking to save face and money but get out of a market they could not really get into. All we are talking about is are they dead today, or will it take until tomorrow.
I will have to disagree with you there. Airborne had a niche third in this market until the Germans came in, bought it and tried to re-invent the wheel (their model was a square one to boot). Had they kept the low cost business niche and expanded it with the DHL international I think they would have had a winner. But spilled milk now, so ppfffttt. I do agree with you that they are done, one way or another. Just waiting for the carcass to stop twitching.
 

727Niteflyer

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I will have to disagree with you there. Airborne had a niche third in this market until the Germans came in, bought it and tried to re-invent the wheel (their model was a square one to boot). Had they kept the low cost business niche and expanded it with the DHL international I think they would have had a winner. But spilled milk now, so ppfffttt. I do agree with you that they are done, one way or another. Just waiting for the carcass to stop twitching.
Was hete the ceo of airborne express or did he come into the picture after DHL bought Airborne. Just curious. I think the best would be if someone started airborne express back up, and started the low cost package delivery again. I bet with the economy, politics the way they are and how the state of ohio has been treated I would think if airborne started back up their would be alot of support.
 

erichartmann

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Was hete the ceo of airborne express or did he come into the picture after DHL bought Airborne. Just curious. I think the best would be if someone started airborne express back up, and started the low cost package delivery again. I bet with the economy, politics the way they are and how the state of ohio has been treated I would think if airborne started back up their would be alot of support.
Hete was running ABX Air for Airborne Freight. ABX Air was Airborne Freight's wholly owned subsidiary carrier. The two did business under the trade name of Airborne Express. Airborne, as part of the run up to DHL buying them changed their name to Airborne Express and became a wholly owned subsidiary of Airborne Inc. At that point, ABX Air also became a wholly owned subsidiary of Airborne Inc. The company continued to due business as Airborne Express.

I don't think the money is there to restart the old Airborne, nor do I think Hete wants to, at least not right now. First he has to get rid of the old line ABX crews whom he hates and thinks are making way to much money for way to little work.
 
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splatt

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I think Joe makes way too much $$$ for what little he has accomplished!
 

Whistlin' Dan

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I don't think the money is there to restart the old Airborne....
I don't either, and that's too bad. Because in a few years, when this economy turns around, the domestic overnight express market will be split between 2 carriers, and historically, that's been bad for the consumer. There will again be a demand for a no-frills, low-cost overnight express package service, similar to what Airborne once offered.

There was a rumor going around a few weeks ago that FedEx might be interested in buying the Wilmington property. If there's any truth to that, it's probably so that Fred Smith could demolish the sort facility and so-preclude any low-cost "competition" in the future.

Let the naysayers laugh at ABX's under-a-buck stock price. We'll see who's still laughing the day TNT or possibly a group of investors from Asia shows up at ILN to walk the property and have a look around....
 
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MountyFlyer

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I think ups or fedex would gobble it up before that would happen. Barriers to entry are pretty high in the US.
 

727Niteflyer

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when you think bout it, it might take money but all the infrastructure is in place. The wlimington sort is in place with all the equipment and workers. All that would be needed is to pick about a dozen large cities, set up offices and personnel the aircraft are already in place. So that would leave tracking software which aready exists from 3rd party and advertisement.

It would cost alot of money to start but I think it could be easily be done.
 

Whistlin' Dan

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What do you think the chances of UPS calling up DHL, proposing a deal with no intention of ever going through with it just for DHL to open their book to them?
Slim. The sales and marketing staff of both FedEx and UPS are pretty savvy. They each know how much business the other is getting from a potential customer because they've already spoken with that customer and put a bid on that job. And they have a pretty good idea what the other guy is charging by whether or not they got the contract. Load factors aren't like "Colonel Sander's Secret Recipe" that has to be locked in a safe every night. They are what they are.

There would be no reason to risk opening a humongous legal can of worms just to find out what's in DHL's books.
 

fodc8

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Just heard from a friend at Polar who said that their schedules are being changed for November. They will now be flying into CVG not ILN. Anyone heard anything about this???
 

Big Beer Belly

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I don't either, and that's too bad. Because in a few years, when this economy turns around, the domestic overnight express market will be split between 2 carriers, and historically, that's been bad for the consumer.

I count 4:

1. UPS
2. FedEx
3. USPS
4. DHL


BBB :confused:
 

Bob Dylan

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Research note on DHL from today:::

DHL ON THE BRINK. We believe DHL is close to a major withdrawal
from the former Airborne, U.S. Dom. Package business, beyond its prior May
announcement. Within weeks we expect DHL could begin exiting the U.S. ground
business entirely and possibly also the Dom. Air Express business, leaving
itself with basically only import/export express rev., as it was prior to
Airborne in C02.

· FDX AND UPS WOULD BENEFIT. Depending on whether it can resolve the
still pending UPS air linehaul agreement, we believe DHL could either shrink
or remove itself entirely from the intra-U.S. express market. We estimate
DHL is down to roughly $2.6B in total U.S. dom. (ground and air) rev. While
we estimate a total shut down would improve both FDX's and UPS's Dom.
Package vols and EPS in C09 by roughly 3-6% and 3%, DHL's removal could have
a vastly larger long-term positive impact on pricing (see below).

· NEAR-TERM UPSIDE LIKELY, DRIVEN BY FUEL. We estimate that FDX's
EPS should benefit by about $0.40 (27%) y/y from net fuel in F2Q:09 (Nov).
While freight trends continue to weaken, particularly Int'l trends, FDX
should benefit for at least another 2-3 qtrs from lower fuel and our sense
is materially weaker earnings expectations are now discounted in the stock.
Today, we have raised our F2Q EPS forecast from below to above Cons.

· GROUND CONTRACTOR ISSUES CONTINUE, BUT LIKELY DORMANT FOR NEAR
TERM. We continue to believe that the Ground contractor issues that plague
FDX are not likely to go away and that longer term those issues will weigh
on FDX's valuation. However, at 13x our recession model, low-end estimates,
with little news expected on the Contractors until at least 2009, we believe
that risk is priced in.

· RAISING RATING TO OP AND SETTING $80 TARGET. Our $80 year-end C09
TP assumes a 14.5x target forward P/E applied out 14 months from now on our
then forward-year recovering C10 EPS forecast of $5.50. This also equates to
about a 16x-17x peak P/E on our trough C09 EPS forecast of $4.80.

Investment Conclusion

Raising Airfreight & Logistics Sub-Sector Weighting to Market Overweight. In
addition to raising FDX's rating from Peer to Outperform, we are also today
increasing our sector weighting on the Airfreight & Logistics transport
sub-sector from Market Weight to Market Overweight. We have recently
increased our ratings on TNT, CHRW and EXPD to Outperform and we continue to
rate UPS, HUBG and UTIW Outperform. Our other Sector weightings remain
Market Overweight for Rails and Market Underweight for Trucks.

FDX is down about 30% YTD compared to UPS down about 28%, our average
Airfreight & Logistics Index (excluding FDX) down 22% and the S&P 500 down
35%. On October 10th we upgraded FDX from Under to Peer Perform after the
stock declined 13% below our former downside target price of $77. We also
noted that near-term fuel tailwinds and DHL problems could provide near-term
upside. Subsequently last week we moved our group to recession models for
2009 which assume -2% GDP during C1H:09 and 0% growth during C2H:09. At that
time we lowered our F09 EPS forecast for FDX from $5.50 to $4.80 (compared
to current Consensus $5.18) and our C09 EPS forecast from $5.43 to $4.80 and
introduced our C10 estimate of $5.50. Today we are raising our current
November quarter F2Q:09 EPS forecast from $1.40 to $1.50 (compared to
current $1.44 Cons) based on our expectation for FDX to achieve a roughly
$0.40 y/y (27%) net fuel benefit which should more than offset weakening
U.S. and global volumes and yields.

Besides from a likely upside surprise in December when FDX reports, we
expect DHL's likely impending announcement that it is further restructuring
its U.S. domestic operations to serve as a near-term catalyst for FDX and
UPS. While we still believe DHL could finalize its pending contract with UPS
for UPS to provide air linehaul within the U.S., we also see an equally
strong possibility now that DHL just shuts down its domestic operation and
pulls out of the U.S. back to its pre-Airborne 2002 import/export-only days.
Our sense is that DHL is seeing freight diversion from customers faster than
it expected and that if the air linehaul agreement is going to succeed it
will need to be announced shortly. We also believe the value of the air
linehaul agreement which back in May was estimated (by DHL and UPS) at about
$1B in revenue per year to UPS for ten years is likely closer to 25%-50%
lower than that given continued diversion. We do not account for any volume
or profit from the DHL contract in our UPS model, nor do we assume in either
our FDX or UPS model that DHL exits the U.S. domestic package market. Thus
any new restructuring news from DHL would likely provide upside to our
current UPS and FDX expectations.

Below we have estimated the remaining revenue at DHL and how UPS and FDX
might benefit from splitting that revenue if DHL were to leave the U.S.
domestic market. Our sense is that FDX and UPS are increasingly benefitting
from DHL's issues and signing business which will likely start to show up in
their P&L over the next 3-6 months. However, as we display below, DHL's
estimated $2.6B of remaining U.S. domestic revenue would not likely generate
enough profitability during C09 for FDX or UPS to overcome downward earnings
pressure from current global volume and to a lesser extent pricing weakness.

More importantly we believe that DHL's removal from the U.S. market should
lead to a material improvement in pricing for FDX and UPS over time. Below
we estimate that each one percentage point of higher pricing during C09
would equate to about $0.37/share (8% of total EPS) and $0.20/share (6% of
total EPS) for FDX and UPS, respectively. Recently both FDX and UPS have
announced high-end historical Air and Ground list increases beginning
January 2009 and, without DHL in the equation, the opportunity to maintain a
greater % of this increase during C09 than they were able to in C08, despite
the weak economy, could increase.

Our sense is that we are not likely to further reduce our recession C09 FDX
EPS forecasts, however outside of near-term fuel benefits, we don't see much
upside until volumes and pricing begin to improve once again likely some
time in C2H:09.

On our modestly upwardly revised, still recession EPS forecasts, FDX is now
trading at 12.8x and 4.7x forward-rolling P/E and EV/EBITDA. This compares
to its past 1-, 3- and 5-year average forward P/E and EV/EBITDA's of 14.1x,
15.1x and 16.1x and 5.7x, 6.2x and 6.5x and its historical peak and trough
P/E range of 12x-20x. We believe given FDX's on-going risk to its
independent contractor Ground model that it is likely to continue to trade
below historical peak and trough ranges.

Applying a target forward P/E of about 14.5x out 14 months forward to our
then forward, recovering C10 EPS forecast of $5.50 (unchanged), implies a
year-end C09 target price of $80 for FDX. This also implies about a 16x-17x
target peak P/E on our trough C09 EPS forecast of $4.80 compared to
historical Peak forward P/E of about 20x on trough earnings. FDX is now
rated Outperform.
 

shooter

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Okay Bob, do you work for UPS or FedEx? Not that it really matters because both are expanding their global footprint exponentially. With the US being such a high volume international product territory with over 50% of the DHL international product, do you think they will have any customers since their packaged product no longer includes the US domestic deliver network?

This is not the same playing field DHL had 10 years ago. If their intention is to try and "do what they did before the Airborne purchase", do you really think they have a product that can outperform and undercut UPS and FedEx with their growing international presence? My opinion (not worth much) is that they will never be able to compete if that is their plan and will be gone in less than 5 years if they try to go back in time.

They need to re-invent themselves, cut costs and deliver for the customer. Just the reduction in the market has created a mass exodus of very large customer accounts. Not to say they cant win customers back, they can. But to do so they need the product and right now they are eliminating more of it each day. Bunch of bums running the show over there.
 
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