Thinking Of Going To Work For Flight Options...Read This

[SilverSurfer]

No takers

Heard today from a bud thats a CA in the Hawker program that management has offered jobs to several pilots that were dumb enough to even apply but they were smart enough to not accept the offer. Theres talk now about how low they are going to have to lower the mins to find any pilots that will accept a job here. Maybe Schreeinga is going to get into the initial pilot training business to trap young pilots into working for us.

Well he's been a abject failure in the fractional business, maybe he will do better running a flight instruction company.:laugh:

 

[jetwash]

Don't forget they still have to pass the type ride at simuflite. If the experience they had two years ago is any indication it might cost them more then they thought. I heard that 2 or 3 of the last group washed out of the sim.

 

[dime line]

Heard today from a bud thats a CA in the Hawker program that management has offered jobs to several pilots that were dumb enough to even apply but they were smart enough to not accept the offer. Theres talk now about how low they are going to have to lower the mins to find any pilots that will accept a job here. Maybe Schreeinga is going to get into the initial pilot training business to trap young pilots into working for us.

Well he's been a abject failure in the fractional business, maybe he will do better running a flight instruction company.:laugh:

Its gonna be interesting, can't wait to see how welcome the new hires will be to their fellow coworkers

 

[SilverSurfer]

Management not the pilots

Its gonna be interesting, can't wait to see how welcome the new hires will be to their fellow coworkers

Dude,

Its management that are the morons not the inexperienced pilots. We were all brand new green pilots at one point, you can't blame them. Think back to when you had 500 hr, when you had gorilla gonads, and thought you could out fly Scott Crossfield and Chuck Yeager in anything. If some dumb ass pencil neck offered you a chance to go type in and fly a jet you would have jumped on it. When and if our management make this blunder don't take it out on the new pilots. Just make sure they don't get you killed and try and help them through it.

 

[Freedom]

Indeed, use the Dale Carnegie School with FLOPS New Hires

You know most of them will be struggling.

Respectfully, help them along.

Befriend them. Let them know you are on their side.

They will be much more willing to listen to your history lesson of what has transpired at Options over the last several years, and why, whether we like it or not, or like Unions or not, we NEED a Strong Union at Flight Options because of the type of management we are dealing with.

Remember, each one of these guys represents a VOTE the company will try to use to get the Union out. Now, you must know that management tried to filter out any new hires that might support a Union. It is therefore, our job to embrace the new hires, and educate them as to why we must have their support for the Union. It will not be easy, rest assured, management will make it as difficult as possible with their selection of candidates. But it can be done.

Want to know a sure fire way to make sure these new hires will side with management and against the union? Treat them like crap, and see what happens.

Let's think with our Brains my Brothers, not our Balls.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[dime line]

Ok, so maybe I was wrong on my thought process, but you make sense......

 

[Hobbes]

I DID NOT write the following...

but it is in the public domain, as it was found on another board, so why not share?

So you wanna work at FLOPS. SUCKER! Found on the web.

http://www1.recruitingcenter.net/cl....cfm?jbaction=JobProfile&Job_Id=10371&esid=az

Updated 10/23/07
Position: Pilot (First Officer)
Locations: Denver (DEN), Atlanta (ATL), Las Vegas (LAS)

Schedule: TBD

Summary:
Flight Options Pilots enjoy the pace and culture of corporate aircraft flying. (Be prepared for our dispatch pace…aka “yesterday”. If your late it’s your fault.) We invite experienced pilots to apply for these positions currently open at various domiciles around the country. (Various huh. Three is various?)(Experienced pilots really? The minimum of 1500 hours says work here at the“Flight Ops Training Airline) Flight Options Pilots are the frontline to our owners.(That’s the last place you want us right now. Overworked, underpaid, pissed off pilots talking with your pax) These professionals will have superior customer service skills combined with passionate attention to detail. (Yes, we’re passionate about getting a fair contract)

Qualifications and Requirements: Must meet ATP requirements and have passed the ATP written exam; (But don’t be too smart so we can pull sh$t over on you.) Posses at least 1500 hours total time, 300 hours multi-engine and 100 hours multi-engine turbine. (See how we require us to get pilots with mucho experience) CANPASS and valid passport required.(We’re in the process of firing all our pilots without CANPASS, making room for lower paid new hires. Helps the bottome line you know.) Corporate aircraft/part 135 experience desirable.(Yeah and a 6 foot blonde to me is desirable, doesn’t mean I’m going to get one) Pilots currently on furlough must resign their seniority and any call back rights.(We say this cause we know that when you see how crap$y we treat you you’ll even run back to places like MESA for better treatment) Pilots will be required to domicile at DEN, ATL or LAS. (Make sure to line up 5 roommates at a crashpad. That’s all you’ll be able to afford)

These positions will be open in our Hawker 400XP/Beechjet program.(XP means the eXtra Parts we can’t find or won’t buy) All training costs are covered by Flight Options including travel and lodging. (The best Best Westerns and Holiday Inn Non-Selects that money can buy) These positions are also eligible for our comprehensive benefits package and per diem. Applications will be accepted exclusively through our website at www.flightoptions.com. (Or you could wait for www.flightoptionssucks.com ((hosted by a flops salesman)) to go mainstream. I’m on my toes)

Disclaimer
The information on this description has been designed to indicate the general nature and level of work performed by employees within this classification. It is not designed to contain or be interpreted as a comprehensive inventory of all duties, responsibilities and qualifications required of employees assigned to this job, which may vary, based on job location, department or the assignment. The actual essential duties, responsibilities and qualifications may vary by location, department, reporting structure or other business needs. No inference should be drawn that a specific job duty, responsibility or qualification is non-essential by its absence from this description.

Or it could be read this way.

Disclaimer: This information in the above job posting is total bull$hit. We can and will blow happy fairy pixy dust so far up you’re a$$ in an attempt to make this place look desirable to work at, that you’ll be in a coma like trance for days. This is the type of pilot we want- a zombie. When you come down from this hi and back to your senses, you’ll find yourself locked in a training contract, working 8 days a week min, we’ll tell you get 7 off but then we’ll read you the fine print and give you 3. Where as you’ll work overtime and not get paid til next year for it. We’ll give you the worlds crappiest health care, work you 16 hours on day 8 each and 14 hours a day every chance we get. If we feel you have a bad attitude for this treatment we’ll work you during the peak season and then bring you in for “disciplinary action” aka fire your as$ and then ask for our cost of training money back. Sometimes we’ll fire pilots on occasion prior to the holiday season just to send a point. Merry Fu$king Xmas. From the Flight Options A$$ Reaming Recruiting Specialists. No jelley.

Signed,
Forever your pain the A$$,
Secret Lovers - Sh%tfinger & Baboo.

 

[bchjetdrvr]

That's some funny sh$t right there....I don't care who you ya are.

 

[greygoose]

If the experience they had two years ago is any indication it might cost them more then they thought. I heard that 2 or 3 of the last group washed out of the sim.

What you heard was wrong. No one washed out in the last 2-3 classes hired. There might be a couple that came close to not getting a recommendation from Simulfite to take the checkride. But there was no washouts.

 

[Greaseman]

What you heard was wrong. No one washed out in the last 2-3 classes hired. There might be a couple that came close to not getting a recommendation from Simulfite to take the checkride. But there was no washouts.

What a relief.

 

[SilverSurfer]

We will become flight instructors

What you heard was wrong. No one washed out in the last 2-3 classes hired. There might be a couple that came close to not getting a recommendation from Simulfite to take the checkride. But there was no washouts.

Those statistics may change when management lowers the min standards to 500 hr total time. Its hard to make a transition form a C-150 to a jet over night. Maybe we can get the Union to include instructor pay in to our contract. Or maybe it should be hazard est duty pay.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Here we go


Serving Tarrant County and all of North Texas



Business Tuesday, Nov 27, 2007
Business



Posted on Sun, Nov. 25, 2007


Regional airlines lower bar for pilots

By TREBOR BANSTETTER
Star-Telegram staff writer


If you've flown on a regional airline like American Eagle or Atlantic Southeast Airlines with any regularity, you may have noticed that the pilots seem a bit younger.
It's not your imagination. Regional carriers, which operate flights for major airlines like American, Delta and United, have been slashing their minimum hiring requirements in recent years as they grapple with a growing shortage of pilots. The carriers have reduced required flight hours for job applicants by as much as two-thirds, and in a few cases have hired pilots with the minimum experience required by the Federal Aviation Administration for a pilot's license.
Airline executives say recruiting less experienced pilots is necessary because the pool of applicants is shrinking while demand for pilots grows. And many have increased training for new hires and assigned them more time flying with veteran co-pilots.
Pilot union officials, while not citing specific incidents, say they're worried that the trend could make the skies less safe.
"The rush to push pilots through training and into the cockpits raises obvious safety concerns," said John Prater, a veteran Continental Airlines pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots Association.
Prater addressed the issue of less-experienced pilots in a recent speech at a forum on aviation safety and security.
"New pilots today are going straight into the [co-pilot's] seat, and moving into the [captain's] seat in a hurry," he said. "And they're doing it in airplanes that are great machines but can be unforgiving."
Airline executives counter that safety isn't an issue. They say they've augmented training for new hires and have increased the time junior pilots are monitored by veterans in the cockpit.
"Anyone who raises safety as an issue has some other agenda," said Roger Cohen, president of the Regional Airline Association. "The airlines are spending a boatload of money on training and recruiting."
And Andrea Huguely, a spokeswoman for American Eagle, said the airline's new hires are competent and talented pilots.
"We have the best pilots out there," she said. "You can't just walk in from the street and say you want to be a pilot."
The issue has emerged as regional carriers account for an increasing portion of the country's airline traffic. Half the flights nationwide are operated by regional airlines, Cohen said.
Regional airlines include carriers like Pinnacle Airlines, which flies for Northwest; Atlantic Southeast, which transports passengers for Delta; and Republic Airways, which operates flights for United. The largest regional carrier is Fort Worth-based American Eagle, which flies for American Airlines; both are owned by AMR Corp.
Passengers book their flights through the larger carrier, and many don't realize that their flight is being operated by a different airline. The major carriers have substantially increased their use of regional airlines in part because their flight crews are paid less.
Traditionally, many pilots began their careers at lower-paying regional airlines with the hope of moving to a major carrier, and a bigger salary, in a few years. Most regional carriers used to require 1,500 total flight hours before an aspiring pilot could apply for a job. A portion of those hours -- usually about 500 -- had to be flown in a multiengine airplane; the rest could be in a single-engine aircraft like a small Cessna 172.
In the past, young pilots typically built up their hours by renting airplanes or by working as instructors for flight schools. Many would spend years adding to their flight hours before accumulating enough to apply as a commercial pilot.
But the pool of new pilots began to dry up several years ago. Regionals have been competing with fast-growing corporate aviation firms, discount airlines, cargo shippers and foreign airlines for talented young pilots. These rivals often have better pay and benefits and more stable work schedules.
The flow of pilots coming from the military has also slowed, said Paul Rice, a captain for United Airlines who is first vice president for the Air Line Pilots Association. And some young people who are interested in aviation are choosing other professions.
Cohen said pay cuts, airline bankruptcies and other industry problems have "taken a lot of the glamour out of being an airline pilot."
"There are just fewer young people who want to make a career out of this," he said.
For example, a starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline that flies for American under the name American Connection, earns $22 a flight hour, with 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to AirlinePilotCentral.com, which tracks pilot salaries. That translates to an annual starting salary of $19,500. A pilot flying 1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal rules -- would earn about $22,000.
Less experience necessary
The dearth of pilots has led airlines to lower hiring requirements in order to maintain flight schedules.
In just the past year, 14 of the 21 regional and commuter airlines tracked by the consulting firm Air Inc. have reduced the hours of experience a pilot must have at the controls of any type of airplane. Trans States briefly lowered its requirement to 250 total hours last summer before raising it to 500, said Kit Darby, the firm's president.
American Eagle has cut its minimum flight hours to 500.
"If you have just a few hundred hours and don't have any jet experience, you're looking at quite a learning hurdle," Rice said.
James Magee, an Eagle pilot and union spokesman, had 2,000 hours of flight time when he was hired in 1999.
"Our new pilots are exceptionally good pilots," Magee said. "But they're flying in very challenging environments, and there's really no replacement for experience."
Magee added that many regional airlines fly into smaller airports that often lack the sophisticated technology of major airports. Many of Eagle's destinations are in the Caribbean, so pilots also have to juggle the aviation requirements of different countries and deal with difficult tropical weather.
He said more experienced Eagle captains "are having to do a lot more teaching in the cockpit than they had to do in the past."
Airlines are aggressively recruiting on college campuses and offering signing bonuses to new hires who complete their training.
In Europe, some airlines hire aspiring pilots with no experience and train them in exchange for a commitment to spend a certain number of years flying for the carrier, Rice said. But there doesn't appear to be any indication that U.S. airlines will replicate that training method, which can be a costly way to acquire pilots.
Union leaders say improved compensation and benefits would help more than signing bonuses and lesser requirements for new hires.
"We have to offer them a career path, with pay and work rules, that is going to be attractive," Magee said.
Regardless, airlines and labor officials agree that the pilot shortage isn't likely to improve soon. Eagle has had to cut flights from its winter schedule because pilots aren't available to fly them.
"It's one of several reasons, but that does play into it," Eagle's Huguely said. "The pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly."

 

[Guitar Guy]

"It's one of several reasons, but that does play into it," Eagle's Huguely said. "The pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly."

Something for FLOP's management to contemplate given their recent tactics.

 

[skyismyoffice]

What you heard was wrong. No one washed out in the last 2-3 classes hired. There might be a couple that came close to not getting a recommendation from Simulfite to take the checkride. But there was no washouts.

1 DID wash out. I think he self-defeated - had some trouble with the EFIS.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Serving Tarrant County and all of North Texas

Business Tuesday, Nov 27, 2007

Posted on Sun, Nov. 25, 2007
Regional airlines lower bar for pilots

By TREBOR BANSTETTER
Star-Telegram staff writer


If you've flown on a regional airline like American Eagle or Atlantic Southeast Airlines with any regularity, you may have noticed that the pilots seem a bit younger.
It's not your imagination. Regional carriers, which operate flights for major airlines like American, Delta and United, have been slashing their minimum hiring requirements in recent years as they grapple with a growing shortage of pilots. The carriers have reduced required flight hours for job applicants by as much as two-thirds, and in a few cases have hired pilots with the minimum experience required by the Federal Aviation Administration for a pilot's license.
Airline executives say recruiting less experienced pilots is necessary because the pool of applicants is shrinking while demand for pilots grows. And many have increased training for new hires and assigned them more time flying with veteran co-pilots.
Pilot union officials, while not citing specific incidents, say they're worried that the trend could make the skies less safe.
"The rush to push pilots through training and into the cockpits raises obvious safety concerns," said John Prater, a veteran Continental Airlines pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots Association.
Prater addressed the issue of less-experienced pilots in a recent speech at a forum on aviation safety and security.
"New pilots today are going straight into the [co-pilot's] seat, and moving into the [captain's] seat in a hurry," he said. "And they're doing it in airplanes that are great machines but can be unforgiving."
Airline executives counter that safety isn't an issue. They say they've augmented training for new hires and have increased the time junior pilots are monitored by veterans in the cockpit.
"Anyone who raises safety as an issue has some other agenda," said Roger Cohen, president of the Regional Airline Association. "The airlines are spending a boatload of money on training and recruiting."
And Andrea Huguely, a spokeswoman for American Eagle, said the airline's new hires are competent and talented pilots.
"We have the best pilots out there," she said. "You can't just walk in from the street and say you want to be a pilot."
The issue has emerged as regional carriers account for an increasing portion of the country's airline traffic. Half the flights nationwide are operated by regional airlines, Cohen said.
Regional airlines include carriers like Pinnacle Airlines, which flies for Northwest; Atlantic Southeast, which transports passengers for Delta; and Republic Airways, which operates flights for United. The largest regional carrier is Fort Worth-based American Eagle, which flies for American Airlines; both are owned by AMR Corp.
Passengers book their flights through the larger carrier, and many don't realize that their flight is being operated by a different airline. The major carriers have substantially increased their use of regional airlines in part because their flight crews are paid less.
Traditionally, many pilots began their careers at lower-paying regional airlines with the hope of moving to a major carrier, and a bigger salary, in a few years. Most regional carriers used to require 1,500 total flight hours before an aspiring pilot could apply for a job. A portion of those hours -- usually about 500 -- had to be flown in a multiengine airplane; the rest could be in a single-engine aircraft like a small Cessna 172.
In the past, young pilots typically built up their hours by renting airplanes or by working as instructors for flight schools. Many would spend years adding to their flight hours before accumulating enough to apply as a commercial pilot.
But the pool of new pilots began to dry up several years ago. Regionals have been competing with fast-growing corporate aviation firms, discount airlines, cargo shippers and foreign airlines for talented young pilots. These rivals often have better pay and benefits and more stable work schedules.
The flow of pilots coming from the military has also slowed, said Paul Rice, a captain for United Airlines who is first vice president for the Air Line Pilots Association. And some young people who are interested in aviation are choosing other professions.
Cohen said pay cuts, airline bankruptcies and other industry problems have "taken a lot of the glamour out of being an airline pilot."
"There are just fewer young people who want to make a career out of this," he said.
For example, a starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline that flies for American under the name American Connection, earns $22 a flight hour, with 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to AirlinePilotCentral.com, which tracks pilot salaries. That translates to an annual starting salary of $19,500. A pilot flying 1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal rules -- would earn about $22,000.
Less experience necessary
The dearth of pilots has led airlines to lower hiring requirements in order to maintain flight schedules.
In just the past year, 14 of the 21 regional and commuter airlines tracked by the consulting firm Air Inc. have reduced the hours of experience a pilot must have at the controls of any type of airplane. Trans States briefly lowered its requirement to 250 total hours last summer before raising it to 500, said Kit Darby, the firm's president.
American Eagle has cut its minimum flight hours to 500.
"If you have just a few hundred hours and don't have any jet experience, you're looking at quite a learning hurdle," Rice said.
James Magee, an Eagle pilot and union spokesman, had 2,000 hours of flight time when he was hired in 1999.
"Our new pilots are exceptionally good pilots," Magee said. "But they're flying in very challenging environments, and there's really no replacement for experience."
Magee added that many regional airlines fly into smaller airports that often lack the sophisticated technology of major airports. Many of Eagle's destinations are in the Caribbean, so pilots also have to juggle the aviation requirements of different countries and deal with difficult tropical weather.
He said more experienced Eagle captains "are having to do a lot more teaching in the cockpit than they had to do in the past."
Airlines are aggressively recruiting on college campuses and offering signing bonuses to new hires who complete their training.
In Europe, some airlines hire aspiring pilots with no experience and train them in exchange for a commitment to spend a certain number of years flying for the carrier, Rice said. But there doesn't appear to be any indication that U.S. airlines will replicate that training method, which can be a costly way to acquire pilots.
Union leaders say improved compensation and benefits would help more than signing bonuses and lesser requirements for new hires.
"We have to offer them a career path, with pay and work rules, that is going to be attractive," Magee said.
Regardless, airlines and labor officials agree that the pilot shortage isn't likely to improve soon. Eagle has had to cut flights from its winter schedule because pilots aren't available to fly them.
"It's one of several reasons, but that does play into it," Eagle's Huguely said. "The pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,898200,00.html?promoid=googlep

The Pilot Shortage

Time Magazine, Friday, Jun. 26, 1964

When the commercial jets flew into service, they made the airline pilot a surplus commodity. Because the airlines could carry many more people much faster, they needed smaller fleets of planes and fewer men to fly them. The lines laid off hundreds of pilots, demoted countless others to lower ranks in the cockpit. Now the situation has made a full turn; for the first time in the annals of peacetime aviation, there is a serious pilot shortage.
TWA says it "desperately needs pilots," recently hired 190 of them, its first newcomers since 1957. To sell flying careers to young men, it sends teams of pilots on speaking tours around the country. Pan Am hopes to hire up to 275 pilots this year. Eastern has been recruiting at Air Force bases, recently added 400. TWA, Eastern and United also have been advertising in the help-wanted columns, and United is busy at its large flight-training school at Denver, intends to break in more than 1,000 men over the next two years.
The pay is high, and can become skyhigh. Pilots who handle the large jets begin at $6,000 to $6,720 the first year, then soar to some $35,000, plus many benefits, by the ninth year—for 85 airborne hours a month.
Why, then, the shortage? For one thing, the surge in travel has led airlines to greatly expand their fleets; last week TWA announced the largest equipment order in its history, 33 jets totaling $162 million. The airlines have usually picked up many pilots from the ranks of young officers who quit the Air Force after a few years; but with the switch to missiles, the military is training fewer pilots. Simultaneously, many of the pioneering pilots of the 1920s and 1930s are reaching the compulsory retirement age of 60. The Air Line Pilots Association figures that 1,400 older commercial pilots—10% of the nation's total—will get their wings clipped within the next decade. Says A.L.P.A.'s magazine: "Only a national emergency requiring the training of thousands will create a surplus."

 

[Publishers]

Not the same situation as Netjets a few years ago at all. There is no FLOPS Europe, no EJM, and no NJI. Managing a growing business versus and shrinking one is an entirely different thing.

 

[SilverSurfer]

No Takers

Latest from Floptions attempts to hire some new pilots.

Last month Floptions invited 40 pilots to come to CGF for interviews. Only 4 accepted the invitation and following the interview 2 of the 4 were offered a job. Both of these pilots were smart enough to decline the offered position. Now management is considering how low they are going to lower the minimums to be able to find pilots hungry enough to come to work at this train wreck. Members of management are making references to the regionals hiring pilots with time as low as 250 TT.

Maybe Sh!thead and Punjab will be opening up a flight school in conjunction with Floptions and have their new hires paying them to come and work here. Fits right into Sh!theads plans to reduce us to the bottom of the fractional/general aviation bucket. Sh!t in Sh!t out.

All I can say to any potential new hires is "Run Forest Run" and don't look back.