Things airline recruiters have done wrong

[bafanguy]

Who wrote "Moondogs Flying Academy" and is it in print ?

 

[A Squared]

Who wrote "Moondogs Flying Academy" and is it in print ?

It's actually "Moondogs Academy of the Air and Other Disasters"

It's writen by Peter Fusco and it's still in print. I got a copy a few months ago through Amazon.

 

[pilotyip]

Pete Ex-Zantop

another YIP cargo dog makes good

 

[mar]

Pick yer words

Pilotyip--your economy with the English language is impressive.

I wish I could be as selective, but there are so many words to use and all of them just a little different.

But let me try for just a second: I admire your attitude towards payin' your dues in 135 freight and then moving on. You don't seem to hold it against the so-called 'time builder'. A lot of companies seem to almost approach cult status and when you leave you're looked down upon as one who just couldn't see the light and the beauty and The Way.

(I can't do it. I must type.)

Bafanguy--That's a great story. I bet you didn't even have a recommendation (not that you couldn't have one but you probably felt like you didn't need one because you had the background--737s--the skills, and the confidence to back up your initial application).

That is a dream of mine. To be hired for my background, skills and confidence.

Thanks for your contributions to this thread, board and industry!



AA--As usual, you my friend are correct. I didn't read the last book I was loaned. Let's just say I'm gonna leave that one hangin'. As for affirmative action I was just really surprised given the divisive nature of this board that that topic wasn't the *very* first pet peeve offered.

What can I say? I'm continually surprised.

 

[enigma]

mar, I'm short of time. I spent too much time at the PM site.

Oh well.

My short answer is that major airlines are major corporations and major corporations are PC. PC entities hire PC people to staff their HR departments. Those people tend to be young, single, females with college degrees in touchy-feelyness.

The hiring you saw at the last boom was a direct result of those "know-nothings" having too much input into the process.

regards,
enigma

 

[typhoonpilot]

Good thread Mar:

Having interviewed a lot I have my ideas of what is a good interview and what is a pointless, stupid HR style interview. Amazingly two of the " best " airlines right now have the later, Southwest and jetBlue. Give me a sim ride and and ask a few questions about my background and maybe a few tech/Jepp questions and I'm a happy man. Ask me when I had to intervene in an argument amongst crew and how everybody walked away happy and in love after said intervention and I'll fall flat on my face.

My best interview ever was with a non-sched in Nevada. A good friend and I walked in to the office on the Reno airport and chatted with the D.O. He was nice enough, telling us about the airline and how he may be looking for people in a few months. I kind of blew it off but my friend followed up and six months later he calls me and says that they are hiring one captain and two F.O.s He said he is one of the F.O.s and I'm the other. Now that is my kind of interview .

When we both left that airline a few years later the interview was with a foreign airline. The guys over from that airline couldn't speak English. They gave us a sim ride which was all NDB work with 25 to 35 knot crosswinds. NDB approach to a missed approach; hold at an NDB; another NDB approach. Great fun. It turns out the interview was relavent because we did a lot of non-precision approaches over there and often times down to minimums in gusty winds. Thus the origin of my name.

So, tell us about a time that you had a passenger complain and what you did about it ? = I told him to shut the fu** up and get off my airplane. Isn't that what we all want to say ?


Typhoonpilot

 

[bobbysamd]

Do you remember several years ago when the hiring was going strong but perfectly good pilots were being rejected from airlines because of ridiculous criteria?

You bet I do.

How about age discrimination? In the late '80s, I changed careers to aviation. No, I was not one of those 40-somethings referenced above who would work for less than others because flying was something I had always wanted to do; I was willing to accept the same sh!tty money paid to everyone at the beginning. At any rate, by the time I was 40 and had built enough time to warrant interviews I had received few responses. However, my much-younger colleagues were being interviewed and hired by the same companies to which I had applied and updated but had heard nothing. Credentials were essentially similar. Flight instructing was our only professional experience. I might have had more time, more multi and my ATP. We were all college graduates. The only difference was they were 25 or younger and I was 40.

The regionals in question include but are not limited to SkyWest, Horizon, GP-Express and Scenic. I kept materials flowing to SkyWest, GP-Express and Scenic for six years, and to Horizon for at least two years. Horizon hired a number of my (25-and-under) colleagues and SkyWest hired at least two of them; one being an ex-student. She walked in materials for me and I still was not called.

I did have interviews elsewhere but was not hired. People here have opined that I do not or had not interviewed well. Perhaps - but I have worked since I've been 14, so I must have interviewed succesfully somewhere. I would say that I had a hostile interviewer for at least two of my five airline interviews. Even so, people can interview well and not be hired - and people have bad interviews and are still hired.

One theory I heard was that recruiters figure an older person would not accept the same low pay a younger person would accept. That concern could have been easily cleared up at the interview. And, here again, my answer would have been "yes," but I did not get the chance to say it.

Another theory is that recruiters figure that younger people will stay at their regional only long enough to build enough time to qualify for the majors, while an older person will stay, top out at scale, and vest in the retirement program, both of which will cost them money. So much for what people told me back then and now, that my being older would be an asset because I offered stability and maturity.

For these reasons, I feel that age discrimination is one of the things airline recruiters do wrong (illegally) to justify rejection of perfectly good pilots. I like how it was said above about how pilot recruiters play G-d with people's lives by way of their moronic (and illegal) practices.

Finally, every time I raise age discrimination I am flamed. Fine. Bring it on. But, first, look through this thread from several months ago where I make a prima facie case proving age discrimination using my experiences, experiences of others, legal authority and expert opinion.

 

[bobbysamd]

Airline HR quals

My short answer is that major airlines are major corporations and major corporations are PC. PC entities hire PC people to staff their HR departments. Those people tend to be young, single, females with college degrees in touchy-feelyness.

You forgot four additional, vital qualifications. They have to have no feel for pilots and people. They have to possess tunnel vision; ability to fit round pegs into square holes is grounds for dismissal. They have to be airheads. They have to be morons.

 

[Swede]

Very interesting thread. I did the Delta interview with Son-of-rocking-chair. The entire Delta interview was warped and Gothic. I never felt at ease. No smiles, no "How's it going?" The facilities were old and grim. I left feeling like it went badly. On the flight home, I talked quite a bit with the crew who were fun, wonderful people, and I wanted very much to get the job, but did not.

I then went to AA. Say want you want about AMR's corporate culture, the interview process was a delight. The bulk of the "analysis" was done by a small group of retired Captains with vast experience. They checked my logs, and for an hour simply shot the breeze. Their job was to make sure of two things - that the credentials I brought to the table were authentic, and given that, was I the kind of guy who they could fly a trip with for three days and not have a fistfight at some point. They looked through my log, and found topics of conversation based upon my background. "So you were a glider instructor? Wow I flew a Blanik a few years ago, it was great!" Then we'd talk soaring for 10 minutes. I felt comfortable talking shop right away.

In the sim (KC135), having never flown heavies, the SIM-IP put me at ease, saying "We're just looking for an instrument cross-check. We know you don't know how to fly a 707".

Anyway, that's the environment you get in an interview when regular line pilots are involved instead of Jung and Maslow wannabees. No offense to Delta which has a great bunch of pilots and flight attendants.