Things a shrinking company may not usually do...

[7on7Off]

Outfit an entire fleet of 400 a/c with Apple IPADS...... Plus training and retrofitting

Hate to burst your bubble, but that's exactly what CitationAir did. Sent iPads to every pilot, then within three months issued furlough notices.

And CA1900, we were told that the knee straps were required by the FAA, let me know how you guys got around that cause I hate that thing!

 

[gunfyter]

I like the knee board. But we need to get flight helmets and zoom bags to replace the uniform....

Shrinkage? Shen knows about shrinkage, right?

The market shrunk ...therefore ....

But the good news is we made money in that market. We are like APPLE stock was right after the Financial Crisis (when the stock market shrunk) it was $80 a share, now ... in 2009... now $600. Now is the time to buy Netjets stock.

I am with Reality man though ... do not see the growth that would be needed for recalls. New planes will replace the old planes.

[Psychic hat on]
But I see a new CBA with 30% Raises (with COLA) for the Pilots. Position of SIC eliminated ... all go to PIC pay.
[Psychic hat off]

 

[jonjuan]

I like the knee board. But we need to get flight helmets and zoom bags to replace the uniform....

Shrinkage? Shen knows about shrinkage, right?

The market shrunk ...therefore ....

But the good news is we made money in that market. We are like APPLE stock was right after the Financial Crisis (when the stock market shrunk) it was $80 a share, now ... in 2009... now $600. Now is the time to buy Netjets stock.

That's because what apple does is is unique and they have zero competition. You are not like apple.

 

[CA1900]

And CA1900, we were told that the knee straps were required by the FAA, let me know how you guys got around that cause I hate that thing!

No idea! I guess every POI is a little bit different. Only real restriction is that it has to be stowed for takeoff and landing, which I suppose the knee strap would accomplish. I'd rather just throw it in the pocket, but that's me.

 

[gunfyter]

That's because what apple does is is unique and they have zero competition. You are not like apple.

That your opinion JJ.

We are just like APPLE. We have similar competition... or have you never heard of ASUS and their TRANSFORMER which is better than the iPad. Never heard of Google and the Android phone? Apple is generally more expensive than its competition. Why do people buy it then? Its one integrated solution. We are a lot like APPLE but no Steve Jobs... we had Santulli.

NJ is a Global executive air transportation system. That IS why we are UNIQUE. One solution. And no mid level executive was ever fired for choosing NJ as its supplement to their own flight department.

As far as the stock ... Apple makes big gains whenever they introduce a new product or update an existing product. In the past NJ has made profits on aircraft sales that offset losses in operations. We now profit on operations with NO new aircraft sales. But like APPLE when it introduces a new iPhone ... NJ will be introducing NEW Airplanes... and will add the profit of Aircraft Sales to the $200 Million profit in operations!

This means raises for pilots!

 

[milehigh6080]

[Psychic hat on]
But I see a new CBA with 30% Raises (with COLA) for the Pilots. Position of SIC eliminated ... all go to PIC pay.
[Psychic hat off]

I'd love for you to be right- that's pretty much the only way I'd be able to justify taking a recall, but I just don't see that happening. There's no precedent that I'm aware of for an all captain company and if I was given a contractual raise to captain rates + 30%, I'd be very expensive to recall vs a new hire. In my opnion, the "pilot shortage" if it materializes will hit the regional level first and won't hit the major level till after NJA has a new CBA.

 

[gunfyter]

I should have put a disclaimer in there ... Captain Dad put me up to everything in that post .... :laugh:

New CBA ... won't see that for 5 or 6 years... Right in middle of pilot shortage....

The reason there will be no SIC pay is because there are PICs right now junior to a lot of the current SICs. There has to be some kind of bypass.

 

[milehigh6080]

I should have put a disclaimer in there ... Captain Dad put me up to everything in that post .... :laugh:

New CBA ... won't see that for 5 or 6 years... Right in middle of pilot shortage....

The reason there will be no SIC pay is because there are PICs right now junior to a lot of the current SICs. There has to be some kind of bypass.

True, I'm sure the company will drag their feet on the CBA until the pilot "shortage" is in full swing and they'll definitely need to sweeten the pot to attract talent.

When I came to NJA in 2007, I specifically chose it over a 121 career because I perceived it as more stable. Well, we see how the "stability" worked out and the pay is below what I can make at even the quasi-major airline that I landed at, let alone the legacies who should all be negotiating their way out of concessionary contracts soon. I was ok with that becasue of the stability and the fact that I found the flying more interesting than the 121 world.

When everyone is hiring in force, NJA will have a very very hard time attracting pilots- especially if there is little growth in the forecast as well as the completely unpredictable seniority advancement that comes along with not having a retirement age. The legacies, with their incredible retirement forecasts, offer a young pilot a huge golden opportunity.

At 31 years old, I'd be insane to accept a recall to NJA with the current contract and growth/retirement forecast coupled with the much lower pay rates than the majors can offer versus taking a class date at a legacy or even just riding it out at my quasi-major and hoping the right legacy buys us and we luck out with a somewhat fair integration.

That being said, I really miss being at NJA and wish I could return. I wish you the best of luck with the next CBA both because I still have a lot of good friends there and because I'd LOVE to be able to justify a return to NJA. I'd still come back there for a slight discount to major/legacy rates, but there is obviously a limit on that. The enjoyment of the flying at NJA is worth something to me, but it doesn't buy diapers or pay my mortgage, so the pay rates definitely need to be adjusted to entice most of the 495 to return, let alone to attract new hires who may not have the affinity for fractional flying that most of the 495 have.

I think market conditions will be right for the NJA group to secure a much better contract, but I seriously doubt that it'll be an all captain payscale. The overwhelming majority of the voting pilot group there is already on the captain payscale, so I don't know why they'd spend negotiating capital to get the minority of SICs brought up to that level. Bypass pay went away with the 2005 contract, didn't it? Or maybe it was IBB, but regardless, the company has already set the precedent that they want no part in that.

 

[jonjuan]

When everyone is hiring in force, NJA will have a very very hard time attracting pilots- especially if there is little growth in the forecast as well as the completely unpredictable seniority advancement that comes along with not having a retirement age. The legacies, with their incredible retirement forecasts, offer a young pilot a huge golden opportunity.

Very astute perception, Milehigh. There will be no growth, only aircraft replacements. That may add to profits, which is good, but ultimately only good/stable for the top 50%, especially with no age limit. Fly until you're 75.

 

[milehigh6080]

especially with no age limit. Fly until you're 75.

The lack of an age limit at NJA is the number one thing that is going to make attracting new pilots difficult.

With no predictable retirement age, accepting a job at NJA is basically a bet on the fact that the company will grow rapidly. I think that would be a very poor bet with the current conditions.

At the legacies with the upcoming retirements, growth is nice, but not necessary. No growth is required for seniority advancement when there is a healthy progression due to retirement.

At NJA, seniority is a game of musical chairs and the music stopped sometime in late 2006.