MCDU
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Posts
- 1,146
Just got this sent to me. Very interesting. Thank you West ALPA MEC for standing strong and giving us a new Union.
Marty
Last February at Wye River, Rice and Prater told both MECs that the NIC would never be implemented. The East pilots had the votes to stop it. That’s why ALPA spent so much time and money trying to get us to compromise. The failure of Wye River pretty much ended ALPA on the property and ALPA knew it.
The real victims of Wye River are the 175 West pilots getting furloughed. We can thank our MEC for that. The Pro-ALPA East MEC offered a compromise they thought would save ALPA and get a cram-down contract vote out before the final USAPA election. According to our sources who were there, the East offer had fences that protected their retirement attrition and prevented East pilots from bidding into PHX/LAS and pushing down West pilots down. Furloughs would be based on length of service. We hear that came out of an old Empire Airlines furlough model.
The East MEC offer would have put Dave O’Dell ahead of approximately 400 east pilots (not a typo – four hundred). The East MEC’s offer was furloughs based on longevity, months of active mainline service.
That’s right, guys. They were desperate to save ALPA and their cushy union jobs. The polling must have told them their plan would save ALPA. For sure their proposal would “SAVE DAVE” from furlough. [/font]
Just like in the B-757 IOU, the E-190 arbitration IOU and unbalanced East-West flying, our MEC ended up getting 175 West pilots furloughed, because they refused to negotiate and THEY TURNED DOWN THE OFFER!
From what we’ve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MEC’s refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave O’Dell from being furloughed. You turned it down.
So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume’, just remember who didn’t “SAVE DAVE.
If the former West MEC goes after us on the facts, we’ll have to put out more details, including actual statements from those who were there on both sides. But that’s the former MEC’s call.
(Go ahead, former MEC members. Deny the truth. Look every pilot facing furlough in the eye and tell them about holding the line at Wye River. Want to talk? We’ll give you our forum to explain yourselves.)
Upcoming U-Turns: (Something that caught U-Turn off guard) Is the NIC negotiable? The case for DFR. Why Wye River’s failure will hurt even senior pilots. Were does Ken Straves stand on Wye River? What does Ken Straver say happened at Wye River? Battling ALPA one week, supporting them the next? Is this Alice In Wonderland or what?
Editor at large for the U-Turn.
Guys, for the last year we’ve heard all the reasons why the Nicolau award is binding on the company and now binding on USAPA, even though it was done under ALPA Merger Policy. According to the TA:
IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list, including conditions and restrictions, if such list and the conditions and restrictions comply with the following criteria:
1. no “system flush” whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latter’s Position; and
2. furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots; and
3. no requirement for pilots to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not actually flown); and
4. allows pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed initial qualification training for a new category (e.g., A320 Captain or 757 First Officer) to be assigned to the position for which they have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the integrated seniority list; and
5. does not contain conditions and restrictions that materially increase costs associated with training or company paid moves.
U-Turn has always believed the NIC had to be accepted. The TA speaks for itself, or does it? Today, we’re not so sure. There was Doug Parker’s statement in the Training Center on July 8th that he thought the NIC was negotiable (“we’ll see what happens…we won’t draw line in the sand”). That statement tracks with what our own Merger Attorney wrote in court-filed papers last summer. He said the company has no obligation to accept the Nicolau Award. Read the next paragraph from his response to last summer’s absurd East MEC Vs West MEC law suit. The East MEC was the “plaintiff.” Freund’s reply to the East MEC lawsuit (emphasis added):
1.Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Our MEC’s merger (and now AWAPPA’s) attorney said the NIC was “in actuality the proposed seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which…the company is not required to accept,” that it is “only a part of ALPA overall bargaining proposal,” and that NIC “does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company.” The way we read the above is that since the Nicolau seniority list isn’t enforceable on the company, the East had no right to challenge it last summer.
If you think we’re taking the above out of context, Google and read the entire response, prepared by West Merger Attorney. Case 1:07-cv-01309-EGS Document 1 Filed 07/24/2007 Freund’s response for the West MEC is 125 pages, but the important pages are 3-6. They spell out exactly what our Merger attorney thinks about whether the company must accept the NIC. According to him, they don’t.
There is no doubt at U-Turn that if the NIC Award is scrapped there will be a DFR lawsuit. In fact, U-Turn has long supported a DFR lawsuit if the NIC is gone. If for nothing else, we need to clear the air and exhaust all our legal options. USAPA has to be expecting a DFR as soon as there’s a single contract dumping the NIC. Their expectations of winning are as high as ours. Unfortunately for us, the bar in winning a DFR is high. How could the Freund comments above help?
Before we raise the money to file that DFR lawsuit, the movers and shakers who plan on putting it together ought to reread what our own Merger Attorney said about whether the NIC was binding on the company. Those quotes above could come back to haunt us. Our own attorney can’t have it both ways.
And when we’re deciding who to DFR, just remember this quote out of the ALPA Merger Policy Manual: “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list.” Did they? With the way ALPA treated us, maybe we ought to give some real thought about who to DFR.
Marty
Last February at Wye River, Rice and Prater told both MECs that the NIC would never be implemented. The East pilots had the votes to stop it. That’s why ALPA spent so much time and money trying to get us to compromise. The failure of Wye River pretty much ended ALPA on the property and ALPA knew it.
The real victims of Wye River are the 175 West pilots getting furloughed. We can thank our MEC for that. The Pro-ALPA East MEC offered a compromise they thought would save ALPA and get a cram-down contract vote out before the final USAPA election. According to our sources who were there, the East offer had fences that protected their retirement attrition and prevented East pilots from bidding into PHX/LAS and pushing down West pilots down. Furloughs would be based on length of service. We hear that came out of an old Empire Airlines furlough model.
The East MEC offer would have put Dave O’Dell ahead of approximately 400 east pilots (not a typo – four hundred). The East MEC’s offer was furloughs based on longevity, months of active mainline service.
That’s right, guys. They were desperate to save ALPA and their cushy union jobs. The polling must have told them their plan would save ALPA. For sure their proposal would “SAVE DAVE” from furlough. [/font]
Just like in the B-757 IOU, the E-190 arbitration IOU and unbalanced East-West flying, our MEC ended up getting 175 West pilots furloughed, because they refused to negotiate and THEY TURNED DOWN THE OFFER!
From what we’ve been told, Jeff Freund left the Wye River conference out of frustration over our MEC’s refusal to negotiate a compromise. Our MEC says they held the line. If failure to negotiate, causing 175 furloughs, is holding the line, great job, guys. The East MEC made an offer that would have prevented Dave O’Dell from being furloughed. You turned it down.
So, if you still think our MEC were heroes at Wye River, tell that to our bottom 175 pilots. All we can say is when you update your resume’, just remember who didn’t “SAVE DAVE.
If the former West MEC goes after us on the facts, we’ll have to put out more details, including actual statements from those who were there on both sides. But that’s the former MEC’s call.
(Go ahead, former MEC members. Deny the truth. Look every pilot facing furlough in the eye and tell them about holding the line at Wye River. Want to talk? We’ll give you our forum to explain yourselves.)
Upcoming U-Turns: (Something that caught U-Turn off guard) Is the NIC negotiable? The case for DFR. Why Wye River’s failure will hurt even senior pilots. Were does Ken Straves stand on Wye River? What does Ken Straver say happened at Wye River? Battling ALPA one week, supporting them the next? Is this Alice In Wonderland or what?
Editor at large for the U-Turn.
Guys, for the last year we’ve heard all the reasons why the Nicolau award is binding on the company and now binding on USAPA, even though it was done under ALPA Merger Policy. According to the TA:
IV. Seniority List Integration
A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list, including conditions and restrictions, if such list and the conditions and restrictions comply with the following criteria:
1. no “system flush” whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latter’s Position; and
2. furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots; and
3. no requirement for pilots to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not actually flown); and
4. allows pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed initial qualification training for a new category (e.g., A320 Captain or 757 First Officer) to be assigned to the position for which they have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the integrated seniority list; and
5. does not contain conditions and restrictions that materially increase costs associated with training or company paid moves.
U-Turn has always believed the NIC had to be accepted. The TA speaks for itself, or does it? Today, we’re not so sure. There was Doug Parker’s statement in the Training Center on July 8th that he thought the NIC was negotiable (“we’ll see what happens…we won’t draw line in the sand”). That statement tracks with what our own Merger Attorney wrote in court-filed papers last summer. He said the company has no obligation to accept the Nicolau Award. Read the next paragraph from his response to last summer’s absurd East MEC Vs West MEC law suit. The East MEC was the “plaintiff.” Freund’s reply to the East MEC lawsuit (emphasis added):
1.Thus, the “arbitration award” Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate” is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list”). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating” and “arbitration,” the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate” an “arbitration award” that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.
Our MEC’s merger (and now AWAPPA’s) attorney said the NIC was “in actuality the proposed seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which…the company is not required to accept,” that it is “only a part of ALPA overall bargaining proposal,” and that NIC “does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company.” The way we read the above is that since the Nicolau seniority list isn’t enforceable on the company, the East had no right to challenge it last summer.
If you think we’re taking the above out of context, Google and read the entire response, prepared by West Merger Attorney. Case 1:07-cv-01309-EGS Document 1 Filed 07/24/2007 Freund’s response for the West MEC is 125 pages, but the important pages are 3-6. They spell out exactly what our Merger attorney thinks about whether the company must accept the NIC. According to him, they don’t.
There is no doubt at U-Turn that if the NIC Award is scrapped there will be a DFR lawsuit. In fact, U-Turn has long supported a DFR lawsuit if the NIC is gone. If for nothing else, we need to clear the air and exhaust all our legal options. USAPA has to be expecting a DFR as soon as there’s a single contract dumping the NIC. Their expectations of winning are as high as ours. Unfortunately for us, the bar in winning a DFR is high. How could the Freund comments above help?
Before we raise the money to file that DFR lawsuit, the movers and shakers who plan on putting it together ought to reread what our own Merger Attorney said about whether the NIC was binding on the company. Those quotes above could come back to haunt us. Our own attorney can’t have it both ways.
And when we’re deciding who to DFR, just remember this quote out of the ALPA Merger Policy Manual: “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority list.” Did they? With the way ALPA treated us, maybe we ought to give some real thought about who to DFR.
