The White House sweet talkin the unions

[Cat Driver]

It is possible that Canada still manages to turn out an acceptable product compared to yours in their schools.

But I can tell you our education and medical system is broke...period..

And we owe it to our socialistic minded Government.

But it will soon collapse from over taxation and to many drones living off the worker bees in the hive.

Socialism histroically has failed wherever it has reared its ugly head.

 

[secks]

I seem to remember that Canada and ther "socialist" countries like Sweden, France, etc. have better educated children than the U.S.

I know this is blasphemy, but those are the facts. Unless you can dredge up some obscure, right-wing, Limbaugh-esque facts to contradict this.

The average SAT score in Barbados is 1300. The vast majority of the students are poor, of African descent, and are taught in dilapidated buildings with little more than desks, paper and pencil. They come from predominantly single-parent homes. Yet their test performance is remarkable. Why? It's obviously not the school, or the equiptment, or the educators. Two reasons: 1) the parent(s) are actively invovled in their childrens' education 2) the school curriculum places strict emphasis on rigor and drill.

So, it doesn't take fancy taxpayer funded schools or highly paid teachers in order to produce well-educated students. It takes parental involvement and some hard work.

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

"It takes parental involvement and some hard work."

Two things that, in the U.S., seem to be in short supply these days.

 

[B1900DFO]

Cat Driver-

If I were you I wouldn't complain about socialists "dumming down" anything when your posts read like they were written by a third grader.

 

[Cat Driver]

B1900FO...

Maybe I'm just a pilot and not a scholar.

Or do you feel that all pilots must be masters of the written word?

 

[bart]

No it is that 1900 can't argue with your point, so he has to resort to some other method. You will notice he had nothing to say when confronted with the facts on teacher pay.

He learned that in the government schools here in the US.

When the facts don't support your position, call the other person:

1) Racist
2) Sexist
3) Stupid

If that doesn't work, they then scream it until you give up and walk away...

 

[Cat Driver]

Bart .....AAhhh. You mean he is responding like a typical liberal?

Maybe he can teach me something about flying while he is critiquing my use of the language?

 

[B1900DFO]

You guys are something else.

Bart- I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the facts on teachers pay. I still argue that teachers are terribly underpaid. 40k may sound like a lot of money to you, I don't agree, particularly for teachers that live in on the west coast or northeast.

As for Cat Bird, you are the one who referred to the Canadians as dumb. I merely pointed out that it is not wise be intellectually condescending when your post is full of poor sentences and poor spelling.

My last word on the subject is that teachers, as a group, deserve more pay and they deserve to have a group (the NEA) that advocates for them. Obviously you don't agree. Now if you think they are a terrorist organization holding our children hostage then I would recommend you get back on your meds immediately. You get the last word, I'm done.

 

[Swass]

1900 -

I hope you don't fly with those blinders on.

You are absolutely clueless.

 

[AeroBoy]

1900 is clueless about what?!?!?!

I have yet to see why the NEA is a "terrorist organization." I, and the rest of the reasonable people on this board, demand proof. Give us undisputable, hard proof of this statement...

BTW, the K-12 public schools I went to in the Pittsburgh suburbs were outstanding. I may not have scored high on the SATS (was never really that good at standardized testing--this kind of testing is an entirely different subject), but I managed to have a 4.0 average while I attended Embry-Riddle, so I'd have to say that public school properly trained me for my college experience. And, yes, Embry-Riddle is a REAL university, and I did have to work very hard to maintain my grades.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The average SAT score in Barbados is 1300. The vast majority of the students are poor, of African descent, and are taught in dilapidated buildings with little more than desks, paper and pencil. They come from predominantly single-parent homes. Yet their test performance is remarkable. Why? It's obviously not the school, or the equiptment, or the educators. Two reasons: 1) the parent(s) are actively invovled in their childrens' education 2) the school curriculum places strict emphasis on rigor and drill.

So, it doesn't take fancy taxpayer funded schools or highly paid teachers in order to produce well-educated students. It takes parental involvement and some hard work.

Interesting. I did not know that. There does seem to be a lot of "drop the kids off in the morning and 'fuggedaboutem' till they come home" mentality pervading the middle-class and especially the lower-class in this country. But what do you expect when families have to work 2 or 3 jobs to "keep up."

What really boggles me are the prayer and sex-education issues. Two subjects that are definitely better left with the parents.

 

[Dubya]

It's simple really.

The terrorist comment was obviously meant to get attention. While it may be a screwed up organization...it's clearly not terrorist.

As for wages...i've done...er a...know a few teachers who are paid quite well for their location. Making 35-40 grand a year in Springfield or Peoria is like making 60-65 g a year in Chicago, New york, LA....and I know teachers in Chicago who make 55-60k per yr. So the pay is not as bad as it is made out to be....not to mention the state bene's and the 4 months of vacation per. 30k per to start....beginning salary? I know lawyers straight out of law school...that's right LAW school..that make less. I won't even touch the aviation comparison.

As for the kiddies around the world...ie: Barbados...(now that is digging).....I wonder how many students in _______ (Barbados, China, Africa, India,...etc.) ...come home to an empty house due to both parents working to support a lifestyle dictated by a society that rewards excess...and have ______..(X-Box, Playstation, drugs, sex, car, computer chat, internet surf...etc.) ....to lure them and distract them from their education and responsibilities. ONE WORD.....DISCIPLINE. Teachers and parents are helpless.

W

 

[B1900DFO]

Swass,

What am I clueless about. You guys just throw out these attacks without any argument to back them up. Here is what I am arguing:

-Teachers are historically underpaid unless you live somewhere where you can raise a family on 30-40k.
-Teachers deserve a union/organization that advocates for them
-Demmanding a living wage and medical benefits,etc does NOT make them a terrorist organization
-I am sure the NEA wastes money as do all organizations be them union or corporate, but that does not mean they are an evil empire.

I can't believe that pilots on this board are arguing against the teachers' right to organize!? Many pilots make over 200k per year and manage that through a union. If you are going to call a group of professionals "terrorists" who hold the nation "hostage" in order to further their greedy selves it would definintely be pilots not teachers that fit the bill. I think pilots deserve a lot of money and teachers deserve a good wage, end of rant.

 

[Cat Driver]

Quote:

" I think pilots deserve a lot of money..."

Why?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Swass:

What happened to that wet cat-creature Avatar?

Still gives me nightmares!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

1900 -

I hope you don't fly with those blinders on.

You are absolutely clueless.

I hope you don't fly with your head up your ass. Nice avatar.

 

[Swass]

Dude my head is always up my ass, why do you think I argue on a freaking aviation board? I don't know either.

 

[Swass]

I've just gone back and read a couple of posts and it astounds me how naive some of the younger people are on this subject (and others). You guys (AeroBoy, 1900) look at the world with rosy colored glasses on, you choose to see one aspect of the problem but don't fully understand the scope and magnitude of the whole picture. All I can say is wait till you have kids of your own, you might take a more conservative (and realistic) view of what's really going on outside of your cockpit.

 

[Dubya]

You tell em swass.

Now when someone tells me I have my head up my ass....i'll take it as a compliment.

Advantages: prostate self exam, left over corn and peanuts

eeewww


W

 

[Cat Driver]

1900D seems to think I'm semi illiterate, hey no big deal.

But what I want to know is exactly what skills he has as a pilot to think he is worth a lot of money?

Come on 1900 convince me.

Lets hear what exactly sets you apart from the pack.

 

[AeroBoy]

Swass,

I have three kids already, so don't give me that "when you guys have kids" argument. Or the "rose colored" glasses BS, either. I have yet to see ANY proof that warrants the "NEA" to be called a terrorist organization. I'm looking at this from a neutral standpoint. I have yet to be convinced that the NEA can be compared in any shape or form with terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda or Islamic Jihad.

Got proof? I didn't think so...

 

[Swass]

AeroBoy you dumbass, it was a figure of speech. Why the hell can't you figure that out, it was explained to you earlier. And yes, you do need to take off the glasses because your views are distorted somewhat.

"I'm looking at this from a neutral standpoint."
Whatever.



This dead horse has been kicked one too many times.

 

[CFI'er]

Real Problems Are Many

Put the blame for our failed schools directly on the parents and bureaucrats that run the school. The teacher is just a puppet for the school boards and school supervisors. Parents scream if any kind of school discipline is directed to their sons and daughters. It is out of control and most of the blame lies in the liberal attitude in today’s society.

Have students ware school uniforms, initiate uniform discipline, cut the bureaucratic fat, make sure all schools have the same equipment and student-teacher ratio, and you will see a dramatic increase in school attitude and educational benefits.

 

[secks]

Interesting. I did not know that. There does seem to be a lot of "drop the kids off in the morning and 'fuggedaboutem' till they come home" mentality pervading the middle-class and especially the lower-class in this country. But what do you expect when families have to work 2 or 3 jobs to "keep up."

What really boggles me are the prayer and sex-education issues. Two subjects that are definitely better left with the parents.

No argument here. The fact that people have to work so hard to support their families is a shame. It used to be that a man could support his entire family with a factory job. Nowdays, you need a bachelor's degree, and commute about 2 hours a day to/from work, living paycheck to paycheck. I for one would like to see our country embrace low taxes and domestic protectionism (mercantile economy). I think those two measures would ease our country back into 1950s-esque prosperity.

 

[AeroBoy]

Swass–Yeah, whatever. I thought that'd be your reply when pressed for real facts. No one should go around calling anybody/anything a terrorist as a figure of speech. He should have had some respect for the thousands of people killed by real terrorist organizations. How many people have the NEA killed? (Answer: none). It's a bad analogy, period. It was a stupid thing for a political appointee to say. If these are the kind of people Bush is appointing to his staff, then I know who I will not vote for this fall (yes, I vote. I've voted in every election since I turned 18, so I'm entitled to a little rant here).

CFI'er–You've hit the nail on the head. A kid's education is only as good as his/her parent's involvement in it. Too many parents want to just drop them off and let the school teach them everything (some schools actually teach classes on manners; isn't that the parents' jobs?). But school uniforms...I don't know. I agree with the fashion parade argument, but a kid's entitled to a little creativity nonethless... I do agree that kids should be punished, though. I can't believe these thin-skinned parents.

Secks–It is a shame that some families must be a two-income family to simply house and feed their kids. The ones that don't get any sympathy from me are those where both parents are working so they can have two Beemers in the driveway and a McMansion. They **could** survive on one paycheck, but they're too greedy and "have to keep up with the Jonses." They may have all kinds of material stuff, but it's coming at the expense of their children--educational, emotional and otherwise.

 

[mar]

MARK RUSSELL: Terrorism at home
Copyright © 2004 Nando Media
Tribune Media Services

(February 29, 6:28 a.m. AST) - Education secretary, Rod Paige, said he was joking when he compared the teacher's union to terrorists. He meant to say the AARP.
****
Joking aside, the Department of Homeland Security is taking no chances on the lookout for teachers. Thank God the students are already armed.
****
Airport screeners are searching passengers for rulers, protractors and other weapons of mass instruction.
****
"Everyone can help," says Secretary Tom Ridge. "Should you confront a teacher, try to bound his or her wrists with duct tape."