The White House sweet talkin the unions

[merikeyegro]

...

You guys should listen to yourselves. You call the NEA a bunch of hacks that have ruined the education system. I wonder what the traveling public thinks about ALPA.

If private education is SO GREAT, then why isn't it just taking over the world? It hit me that much of this world has a public education system and it doesn't seem to be crumbling. Just cuz ours sucks at times (I remember mine being rather good up in MN) doesn't mean that companies would do any better. After all, look how well some of your airlines are doing these days? All that competition really helped everyone out, didn't it? Companies have been contracted to provide education to school districts in the past and have been fired just as quickly because they were ineffective.

My wife works for a private school. She hates the part where you have to sell the place to parents and can't give them an honest evaluation about their child's progress...all for fear of losing their business. How does this improve education? It just makes everyone fear for their jobs and doesn't benefit the true customer - the student. Heck, the NCLB Act is a good example of doing nothing to help the student but just making teachers nervous. It's like the pilots being held responsible for the timeliness of their flights. They may be one part of the problem, but they aren't the WHOLE problem.

Please look at yourself in the mirror. The grass ain't any greener on your side of the lake.

 

[B1900DFO]

Bart tell me some initiatives that the NEA has opposed which would have improved schooling.

How are they "threatening your children?"

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Alpa opposed mandatory drug testing and forcing crew members to go through security. BALPA opposes armed fedearal air marshals on their flights. Does that mean that these pilot labor goups are trying to kill your mother, or threaten her life??? They are clearly not embracing these initiatives that would add an extra layer of safety.

Do teachers deserve to be able to afford decent homes? Buy new cars? Have more than one child? How is the NEA's work at making the teaching profession a rewarding one repugnant; how can you call that holding your children hostage? If you want to jump on that bandwagon the numerous times that Alpa carriers have gone on strike was effectively holding america hostage.

 

[100LL... Again!]

The teachers unions:

Enforce a strict seniority system.

Defend any level of incompetence (seen this myself)

Use scare tactics to keep the rank-and-file in line

Are dumbing down our curricula

The teachers are helpless pawns in this game,
like most union workers


Nothing wrong with teachers, but the NEA will eventually show its true colors

Someday, the ignorant masses will finally realize that they have been played for fool by union mgmt.

I wish I was wrong, really, but I know that I am not.

Conservative, right-wing, and PROUD of the title.

 

[urflyingme?!]

ADMIN IS THE PROBLEM

I recently graduated high school in CA. IT STUNK! We had a saying about our administrators. They were teachers who didn't like cildren, and id everything they could to stay away from them.

We would comonly have our dean of students use pay phones to call parents without using hername, telling them their children did drugs. She did this to my friend who led a youth bible study, because he opposed here on a policy issue!!! He was the sleanest kid i knew. But it ruined his senior year.

The principle supported a teacher who openly drank codeine laced cough syrup in class , for over 2 years!

Security guards took naps in their cars, while at least one car was broken into a month.

Most of the teachers were eccelent, and they aren't paid that pporly. I'm tired of hearing that. With a good degree a teacher can earn up to 80K a year by retirement, thats well above the national avg. Add in the fact that you have three months off a year to do whatever you want, plus at least three weeks of vacation(i don't believe paid) and pension , health and other benefits, ou have a good job. I know plenty of college grads who can't find a job right now, but im sure they could get hired as a teacher.

Public school in america is choked by the various unions ruling it. I'm sorry. We paid 250,000 dollars for a single bathroom! You know how much it would cost if my father's private company had ordered the same one? 40k or less. Now tell me thats a good thing? PLease, someone tell me that's a good thing. Man im sure proud of that teachers union for keeping that teacher in my mathe class WHICH I FAILED because the teacher was hallucnating during class.....

 

[Swass]

Nice flame bait, idiot. But it does prove a point...

 

[secks]

Of course they serve teachers!!! That is their primary function. Do you think the airline pilots association was founded to find ways to better serve the travelling public? Do you think that teachers do not deserve collective bargaining rights or an association that represents them? For god's sakes man. I can't believe you and bart are pilots.

The point is that they serve teachers at the expense of students. You hear any NEA rep. speak, they will proclaim that their organization is dedicated to improving education. Yeah, right. They should at least admit that the welfare of students has nothing to do with their agenda.

Comparing a teacher union to a pilot union is like comparing a cake to a crowbar. Students are beholden to the educational system. These kids have no choice but to work within the confines of the NEA's agenda. You can't just blindly follow a selfish agenda when young peoples' futures are at stake.

As for a low stress environment I don't know what you are talking about. I have several teachers in the family and I can assure you that when the bell rings at the end of the day the teacher's day is nowhere near over. Columbine is not in the ghetto but that didn't keep a couple of crazy kids from deciding to kill a bunch of people at school. Imagine yourself standing in front of six different classes of 14 year olds these days. Tough stuff. It's not a terrible job, but it isn't a walk in the park either. They definitely DO need an organization that stands up for their rights and benefits.

Generally, it's not a terrible job. If it were, nobody would bother teaching anymore. Teaching is something which gets in your blood. I also have several teachers in my family. They do it because they love working with kids.

I've got no problem with teachers banding together and bargaining. The problem is that their agenda is often damaging to students. So why the he|| should parents sympathize with the plight of teachers when their union does a great deal of damage to public school systems?

 

[bart]

I just did some research on teacher pay and in 2002, average starting pay for a teacher was $30,719 . The same research bemoaned that some fields were starting in the $40,000 range.

If I made $40,000 per year, and took the summer off, I would make about, er, uh $30,000 a year.

The average across the US for teacher salaries is $44,367 in 2002. While this may seem low, the average number of years in the profession was 8 years (which the study recognizes is down from 12 years 30 years ago, but they fail to make the statistical link to average salary, they also count college as experience), and so the average per year increase for teachers was 5%. Not bad considering most people saw little if no wage growth in the last 3 years.

Also consider the equivalent for full time work would be just less than $60,000.

Not the greatest wage in the world, but far from the worst. And add to that that you basically cannot get fired, even if you don't do your job, or help your students cheat on standardised tests. It is not a bad deal.

AFT Teacher Pay Study

 

[Freddie Spencer]

....and that has to do with calling them a "terrorist organization"? Somehow you lost me there, let me explain, what I need is evidence that they spread terror around the nation, or around the world.

 

[Cat Driver]

To time travel into the future, You all just look north into socialistic Canada.

Our whole system is screwed including the education system because like sheep Canadians vote liberal.

We are what you are heading for unless you quit dumming down your children with socalistic pablum.

And like Canada the authors of this mindset are the top dogs that drive the education system.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I seem to remember that Canada and ther "socialist" countries like Sweden, France, etc. have better educated children than the U.S.

I know this is blasphemy, but those are the facts. Unless you can dredge up some obscure, right-wing, Limbaugh-esque facts to contradict this.

 

[Cat Driver]

It is possible that Canada still manages to turn out an acceptable product compared to yours in their schools.

But I can tell you our education and medical system is broke...period..

And we owe it to our socialistic minded Government.

But it will soon collapse from over taxation and to many drones living off the worker bees in the hive.

Socialism histroically has failed wherever it has reared its ugly head.

 

[secks]

I seem to remember that Canada and ther "socialist" countries like Sweden, France, etc. have better educated children than the U.S.

I know this is blasphemy, but those are the facts. Unless you can dredge up some obscure, right-wing, Limbaugh-esque facts to contradict this.

The average SAT score in Barbados is 1300. The vast majority of the students are poor, of African descent, and are taught in dilapidated buildings with little more than desks, paper and pencil. They come from predominantly single-parent homes. Yet their test performance is remarkable. Why? It's obviously not the school, or the equiptment, or the educators. Two reasons: 1) the parent(s) are actively invovled in their childrens' education 2) the school curriculum places strict emphasis on rigor and drill.

So, it doesn't take fancy taxpayer funded schools or highly paid teachers in order to produce well-educated students. It takes parental involvement and some hard work.

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

"It takes parental involvement and some hard work."

Two things that, in the U.S., seem to be in short supply these days.

 

[B1900DFO]

Cat Driver-

If I were you I wouldn't complain about socialists "dumming down" anything when your posts read like they were written by a third grader.

 

[Cat Driver]

B1900FO...

Maybe I'm just a pilot and not a scholar.

Or do you feel that all pilots must be masters of the written word?

 

[bart]

No it is that 1900 can't argue with your point, so he has to resort to some other method. You will notice he had nothing to say when confronted with the facts on teacher pay.

He learned that in the government schools here in the US.

When the facts don't support your position, call the other person:

1) Racist
2) Sexist
3) Stupid

If that doesn't work, they then scream it until you give up and walk away...

 

[Cat Driver]

Bart .....AAhhh. You mean he is responding like a typical liberal?

Maybe he can teach me something about flying while he is critiquing my use of the language?

 

[B1900DFO]

You guys are something else.

Bart- I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the facts on teachers pay. I still argue that teachers are terribly underpaid. 40k may sound like a lot of money to you, I don't agree, particularly for teachers that live in on the west coast or northeast.

As for Cat Bird, you are the one who referred to the Canadians as dumb. I merely pointed out that it is not wise be intellectually condescending when your post is full of poor sentences and poor spelling.

My last word on the subject is that teachers, as a group, deserve more pay and they deserve to have a group (the NEA) that advocates for them. Obviously you don't agree. Now if you think they are a terrorist organization holding our children hostage then I would recommend you get back on your meds immediately. You get the last word, I'm done.

 

[Swass]

1900 -

I hope you don't fly with those blinders on.

You are absolutely clueless.

 

[AeroBoy]

1900 is clueless about what?!?!?!

I have yet to see why the NEA is a "terrorist organization." I, and the rest of the reasonable people on this board, demand proof. Give us undisputable, hard proof of this statement...

BTW, the K-12 public schools I went to in the Pittsburgh suburbs were outstanding. I may not have scored high on the SATS (was never really that good at standardized testing--this kind of testing is an entirely different subject), but I managed to have a 4.0 average while I attended Embry-Riddle, so I'd have to say that public school properly trained me for my college experience. And, yes, Embry-Riddle is a REAL university, and I did have to work very hard to maintain my grades.