The TWA Story

[Cleared Direct]

Airways Magazine has an article in the August issue that is a tribute to TWA.

http://www.twapaf.com/Documents/Airways%20Article%20on%20TWA.htm

 

[AAflyer]

It has been mentioned already, twice.

AA and APA are the evil empire.

AA

Not commenting on the fairness.

 

[CSY Mon]

Just like the TWA pilots, many AA pilots regret the $3/4 Billion purchase of TWA.
Perhaps AA would have been in much better financial shape without the burden of buying and supporting TWA.

Several hundred senior TWA guys are not complaining however, they are flying capt for AA now instead of drawing un-employment or flipping burgers.

 

[350DRIVER]

Not commenting on the fairness.

Riiiiight, cause their was no "fairness" shown..

Perhaps AA would have been in much better financial shape without the burden of buying and supporting TWA.

Perhaps TWA would also still be around as well as 75+ years of tradition if this would never have went down the way it did.

Several hundred senior TWA guys are not complaining however, they are flying capt for AA now instead of drawing un-employment or flipping burgers.

Several hundred out of how many? That is what I thought. Also take a look at a "few" of the former MD-80 TWA captains who are now on the streets "drawing un-employment".


no matter which way you look at it the TWA group got the shaft.

This is what happens when your President is an 80 line captain trying to save an airline.

Still makes me sick to see 75+ years of tradition go right down the tubes.

3 5 0

 

[Brett Hull]

What was Bill Compton's status after the merger? Did he become a line pilot, did he get furloughed, or did he just take the money and run?

 

[JJGMADDOG]

Just like the TWA pilots, many AA pilots regret the $3/4 Billion purchase of TWA.
Perhaps AA would have been in much better financial shape without the burden of buying and supporting TWA.

Several hundred senior TWA guys are not complaining however, they are flying capt for AA now instead of drawing un-employment or flipping burgers.

Boy , some people just can't leave it alone!!!

I think the one thing that impresses me the most in joining this operation by default is the level of consistency with the natives.....consistently arrogant and ignorant!!!!!

See ya on the line skippy!!!!

 

[CSY Mon]

No "skippy" here maddog...Furloughed native AA. (Don't cry on my shoulders)

Arrogant and ignorant?

For saying that we both agree that we regret the TWA take-over?
Perhaps the TWA folks would have gotten a warmer welcome if they did not run to Senator Kit Bond so he could arrange for a new "law" called the airline fairnes act...As in date of hire.

When the seniority issue on the pilot side was "negotiated", APA cooked up a deal that could stand up in court...So far it has despite law-suits from the TWA side. ALPA lawyers would certainly have won the cases otherwise..?

Forgot how TWA handled the take-over of Ozark?
Was that D.O.H., or did the Ozark guys get stappled?

350:

Still makes me sick to see 75+ years of tradition go right down the tubes.

Yup, I feel the same way about Pan-Am, Eastern, Braniff, Republic, and the other fine carriers that disappeared along the wayside, not taking a guilt trip over it however.

 

[JJGMADDOG]

No "skippy" here maddog...Furloughed native AA. (Don't cry on my shoulders)

Furloughed myself skip....no crying here!!

Arrogant and ignorant?

For saying that we both agree that we regret the TWA take-over?
Perhaps the TWA folks would have gotten a warmer welcome if they did not run to Senator Kit Bond so he could arrange for a new "law" called the airline fairnes act...As in date of hire.

Never said that I regret the take-over.....I just don't agree with certain issues!!

When the seniority issue on the pilot side was "negotiated", APA cooked up a deal that could stand up in court...So far it has despite law-suits from the TWA side. ALPA lawyers would certainly have won the cases otherwise..?

"Negotiated"....come on your'e killing me!!! Where have you been!! Hard to negotiate and agree to a sh&**t sandwich!!

Forgot how TWA handled the take-over of Ozark?
Was that D.O.H., or did the Ozark guys get stappled?

Not concerned with the TWA/Ozark merge...and by the way...Ozark did get date of hire to a certain degree!!

350:


Yup, I feel the same way about Pan-Am, Eastern, Braniff, Republic, and the other fine carriers that disappeared along the wayside, not taking a guilt trip over it however.

JG....

 

[furloughfodder]

As in date of hire.

What's wrong with date of hire? Are we all not brothers in arms in this mad world called aviation?

Forgot how TWA handled the take-over of Ozark?
Was that D.O.H., or did the Ozark guys get stappled?

Actually Ozark DID get date of hire. You might want to do some research tool boy.

 

[CSY Mon]

Actually Ozark DID get date of hire. You might want to do some research tool boy.

Tool boy?
Read my lips: I was asking a straight forward question.

Ozark did get date of hire to a certain degree!!

Did or did not...?

What is wrong with D.O.H. ya said?
Depends on how many numbers ya lost and which side ya are on.
No happines in any seniority issues....Surprised are ya?
Did the AA pilots owe ya their seats?

TWA have been a stepping stone for a quite a few guys for quite a few years:
We had F/Os over at Tower Air that jumped ship from TWA 'cause they saw no future there.
Had guys in my AA class that left TWA as they could see the writing on the wall as well. (Class of 11-13-01)
Folks bailed out after they got a little "major" time...Don't blame 'em a bit, the whole thing smelled like Pan-Am # 2.

Now adays however, TWA was not a sinking Titanic, oh no Sir, but rather a great carrier with lots of future and potential, tradition, pride etc., but alas, AMR and APA screwed them so bad that they gulp up heartburn in every other sentence and blame the results of 9/11 and the economic down-turn on APA and AMR, not the TWA managment, nor their own MEC, or themselves for not bailing out earlier.

There is always a villain, never a mirror.

Funny how the Eagle guys and the TWA guys wants the AA seats so bad that they go to one law-suit after another, yet they hate APA and AMR so much that it eats 'em up.

 

[stuart716]

did any american guys get furloughed after the twa merger?

 

[CSY Mon]

did any american guys get furloughed after the twa merger

?

Speaking..

 

[stuart716]

let me see if i got this right... twa was bought out by american (amr) and the seniority list was combined. in doing that american guys and twa guys were furloughed. if that is correct then i think that the twa guys got a break by all of them not being furloughed. imagine how you would feel if you are an american pilot and bought another company and in doing so it put you out of a job. i think i would be pretty p!ssed about losing my job because my company bought someone elses.

 

[CSY Mon]

Well, Stuart: Not quite that clear cut.

Some AA guys lost numbers and got furloughed 'cause the corporate economy would have been much better without taking on life-support of a dying TWA.

On the other hand, when all that happened, nobody, including the TWA guys in all their wisdom, could foresee 9/11.

The crew on Titanic was more than happy to have a white knight sweep 'em of the floor and offer substantial pay raises and a number on a good list.

A couple of days after 9/11 however, native AA guys were kicked out of their new hire classes and the big "F" world were mentioned in the hallways of the AMR dungeons.

All of the native AA guys hired prior to the TWA fiasco, 4-10-01 or so, got furlough protection as part of the agreement with AMR.
Yet that was negotiated away last year....(Don't think all of us native AA guys are in love with APA or AMR.)

When the fighting started however, law suits, arbitrators and senators was introduced to get the best deal..The TWA pilots fought hard to get the key to the candy store, my hat off to them for the fight, but not sure why they thought they were owed something by the AA pilots.

Don't have the exact numbers handy, but I think about the number of TWA guys on furlough is about 1500 and native AA guys (that actually qualified for the job and had to do the testing and probation time/pay, etc) is around 900 or 1000..The total on furlough should about 2400 or so.

Including moa.

 

[BoeingBoy]

furloughfodder,

Wow, this has been rehashed enough. Yep, good ole' TWA (saints all) did give the Ozarkies DOH when they merged...but when the furlough axe fell, they decided it was OK to furlough out of seniority...yep the OZ guys got furloughed out of seniority. Nice. Smoke an mirrors seniority....but they got DOH!

Rob.

 

[CSY Mon]

yep the OZ guys got furloughed out of seniority.

Aye, where are the hypocrites now?

Cry loud and talk big, but can't back it up?

Poor little TWA guys, got screwed soo bad...

 

[JJGMADDOG]

Well, Stuart: Not quite that clear cut.

Some AA guys lost numbers and got furloughed 'cause the corporate economy would have been much better without taking on life-support of a dying TWA.

On the other hand, when all that happened, nobody, including the TWA guys in all their wisdom, could foresee 9/11.

The crew on Titanic was more than happy to have a white knight sweep 'em of the floor and offer substantial pay raises and a number on a good list.

A couple of days after 9/11 however, native AA guys were kicked out of their new hire classes and the big "F" world were mentioned in the hallways of the AMR dungeons.

All of the native AA guys hired prior to the TWA fiasco, 4-10-01 or so, got furlough protection as part of the agreement with AMR.
Yet that was negotiated away last year....(Don't think all of us native AA guys are in love with APA or AMR.)

When the fighting started however, law suits, arbitrators and senators was introduced to get the best deal..The TWA pilots fought hard to get the key to the candy store, my hat off to them for the fight, but not sure why they thought they were owed something by the AA pilots.

Don't have the exact numbers handy, but I think about the number of TWA guys on furlough is about 1500 and native AA guys (that actually qualified for the job and had to do the testing and probation time/pay, etc) is around 900 or 1000..The total on furlough should about 2400 or so.

Here we go again....Skippy...take the piece pipe out of your mouth...get off your high horse and come back down to reality...."qualified for the job and had to do the testing"...give me a freakin break!!!

Lets stop with the Jimmy Swaggart preaching about how the white knight came in to save the damsel in distress TWA...and how your extrodinary training and testing makes you more qualified than the K-mart TWA guys!!!

Remember one thing.....we saved some of YOUR jobs....we brought in replacement aircraft (MD-80's) for your retiring F100's.....where would those guys be now had there been no buyout....you got it....furloughed...on the street...flown back to eagle...best of all these clowns got a pay raise from being displaced from the F100 to the 80!!!!


Including moa.

You can thank us later!!

 

[steveg]

CSY is a shining example of the arrogance at aa. It does no good to try and discuss anything with him. He heard it from the apa, so it must be true. CSY you truly deserve everything you get from your career with aa. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

 

[CSY Mon]

Here we go again....Skippy...take the piece pipe out of your mouth...get off your high horse and come back down to reality...."qualified for the job and had to do the testing"...give me a freakin break!!!

JJG:
What don't ya understand about having to QUALIFY for the job instead of being bought into it?

Some of us actually had to go througt the BS testing and interviews and all

Remember one thing.....we saved some of YOUR jobs....we brought in replacement aircraft (MD-80's) for your retiring F100's.....where would those guys be now had there been no buyout....you got it....furloughed...on the street...flown back to eagle...best of all these clowns got a pay raise from being displaced from the F100 to the 80!!!!

that.

Lets stop with the Jimmy Swaggart preaching about how the white knight came in to save the damsel in distress TWA...and how your extrodinary training and testing makes you more qualified than the K-mart TWA guys!!!

Not sure I said more qualifed for the job: The native AA guys had to compete among all the applicants to get hired. The TWA dudes did not.
I have been in this business long enough to not make any judgement about flying skills or proffesionalism and all that.
Been on TWA flights and around TWA quite a bit in the past, and have nothing but high regard for the flight operation and the pilots.

To get on with AA as a native, was still a pain in the arse, and all I am saying is that ya are lucky ya did not have to go that route, yet ya think ya deserve the seats?

Remember one thing.....we saved some of YOUR jobs....we brought in replacement aircraft (MD-80's) for your retiring F100's.....where would those guys be now had there been no buyout....you got it....furloughed...on the street...flown back to eagle...best of all these clowns got a pay raise from being displaced from the F100 to the 80!!!!

YOU saved some of our jobs?
Well, not mine.

Yup, furloughed now, despite yer generous 80s, thanks anyway.

He-eh, ya think the F-100 AA guys are thanking ya for getting a pay raise after ya brought the MD-80s in?
We have native AA jets parked in the desert as we speak, don't need yer MDs, thanks anyway.

Not sure which planet ya are from, but best of luck anyway.

 

[CSY Mon]

CSY is a shining example of the arrogance at aa. It does no good to try and discuss anything with him. He heard it from the apa, so it must be true. CSY you truly deserve everything you get from your career with aa. Couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

Not arrogant Junior, just a hard working un-employed pilot tired of listening to cry-babies that screwed their brothers and still trying to get more free seats.