The race has begun!

[Ifly4money]

To all of you who call yourselves regional pilots which region do we operatate in anways? I for one operate in the northwest hemisphere region also known as north America. With our new long legged A/C we are no longer regional pilots. The only ones that still qualify for that title still fly Tprops. Not to bad mouth Tprops, just they don't have the range of the new generation small jets.

Until we look at ourselves for what we are (Tprop guys this applies to you also) management will continue to crush our wages! I have been an airline pilot for over 5 years now (3 airlines) and have never seen such an assault on my wages until this past year. I don't care if you fly a c-172 or a 777 we must all stand together on our stance for better wages or else we are all doomed to burger flipper wages.

I don't blame management for trying to beat our wages down I blame ALPA national for allowing to happen. ALPA has allowed outsourcing of outsourced flying and that only drags everyone down. I do blame management for not recognizing the face that as cost (mostly fuel related) so must ticket prices. I read an article a few weeks ago in the daily ops notes (USA today) that trucking companies were posting record profits for 2005, why didn't there fuel prices skyrocket the same as Jet A did? I think it comes down to the fact that as fuel prices climbed so did fuel surcharges for shipping. Airline management needs to go back to AM101.

And if you are a "mainline guy" reading this you better take notes. If you don't think what happens at the bottom of the payscale effects you you are either niave or just plain stupid. As the payscales at the feeder carriers fall so will yours. Someone needs to help stop this now before a 777 senior capt. qualifies for food stamps. ALPA has sat by and let us be the scape goats for mis-management.

And if you think scope will help.... I can't help you there. There is only one scope clause that will help anyone and its day left for the sunset years ago.

When DAL bought CMR management obviously did not want a merger/intergration so they turned to ALPA to help them out. ALPA had no problem being managements bad guy. And when ALPA ruled that there was no grounds for a merger of the two groups DAL management through a party because they knew that they had won the war.

And Mr. Worthless's idea of brand scope will be the end of all of our careers. By allowing anyone and everyone with a new jet and an air carrier cert. to fly an airplane on your codeshare only intensifies the wage decline! If DAL would have been forced to merge CMR with the DAL list then scope could have been made very simple. If the pax has a DAL ticket it doesn't matter if it flown with a C-172 a DAL pilot will be in the seat doing the work. But, no, we now have a portfolio concept which is destroying all of us.

If you work for Mesa, CHQ or any of the other carriers that most call the bottom feeders you will be next. If CMR takes this horrible new LOA they will be after you soon enough to lower the bar some more. And, if you lucky enough to be higher on the food chain (mainline pilot) after they finish beating down the feeders and transfering all of those shinny new 100 set taco jets to the feeder carriers they will be back for you.

No one is winning this race! We must all unite and stop it or we will all be working 3 jobs just to be able to afford to fly for an airline.

This is not flame just the honest truth as it will unfold over the next 5-10 years if we do nothing to stop it.

When CMR votes down the POS of an LOA that they have been handed it may be the end of CMR. As a CMR pilot with a family to feed I am willing to accept this as payment for helping to stop the death spiral that has begun. After three airlines I gave up being scared easy by management. I was not at CMR for there strike so I am not willing to give up something that others paid such a high price to obtain.

PS to all of the DAL pilots.... I don't care if I am ever on your list! It only makes good sense for one list for every brand name! With one list managment has flexibility to right size the equipment for the market without artificle limits on A/C seat capacity or block hours. One list who cares we all win, this applies to NW, CAL and anyother legacy carrier still in business.

 

[frqtflyer]

No one is winning this race! We must all unite and stop it or we will all be working 3 jobs just to be able to afford to fly for an airline.

Right on!! We must unite!

 

[Birddog]

. With our new long legged A/C we are no longer regional pilots.

If that is true, then we must face the uncomfortable truth that we do indeed work for third party companies to which work is being outsourced. Either our product is different from the mainline flags under which we fly, or it is the same. If what you say is true, then you are making a case all the small jets to be placed at mainline carriers. This is what some have been saying for years. If our product is the same as the mainline product, then we are contributing to the portfolio problem. Call me crazy, but that is what I take away from your post. My, my, look at all the worms in this can...

 

[MINIME]

Good common sense post Ifly4money, right on brotha. I just wish there were more of us like you that see this BS for what it is!! We probably wouldn't be in such bad shape.

 

[D'Angelo]

When CMR votes down the POS of an LOA that they have been handed it may be the end of CMR. As a CMR pilot with a family to feed I am willing to accept this as payment for helping to stop the death spiral that has begun. After three airlines I gave up being scared easy by management. I was not at CMR for there strike so I am not willing to give up something that others paid such a high price to obtain.

That is far from a guarantee my friend. There are plenty of people who are smart enough to save their jobs instead. I would rather have a job than "make a stand" when no one is going to appriciate it anyway. In case you didnt notice there is a glut of RJs out there. Anyone can replace anyone at anytime with hardly any trouble. Now is not the time to make a stand. Too many people are licking their chops as it is. if you make a stand you will get sandbagged by everyone else.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

They can't outsource your job if you have a contract that says they can't. I've been pushing brand scope for years, it's the only way to save this profession.

 

[Crossky]

That is far from a guarantee my friend. There are plenty of people who are smart enough to save their jobs instead. I would rather have a job than "make a stand" when no one is going to appriciate it anyway. In case you didnt notice there is a glut of RJs out there. Anyone can replace anyone at anytime with hardly any trouble. Now is not the time to make a stand. Too many people are licking their chops as it is. if you make a stand you will get sandbagged by everyone else.

BS. Plenty of people appreciate what Comair and ACA have done. Sacrificing your job but keeping your pride is worth something. We need solidarity across all the regionals now. Giving even one penny back is not worth a shorter upgrade in a jet people will always complain about.

Comair and XJT BE STRONG! If Mesa (and I pray they don't cause they've been giving good rides on my commute lately) caves in any way for the Coex flying it will permanently confirm many persons what many suspect of them.

 

[Crossky]

Let me add Pinnacle and Mesaba to the list also. If you get thrown to the street, someone else will hire you! (Maybe the bottom feeder whose caved) (c;

 

[D'Angelo]

Let me add Pinnacle and Mesaba to the list also. If you get thrown to the street, someone else will hire you! (Maybe the bottom feeder whose caved) (c;

so your saying you would rather be hired and start all over than keep your senority just to prove a point. If the pilots really appriciated what has been done in the past they would have struck to get CMR level contracts. They didnt. They chose to undercut now its a fight to save ones job. Its turned into every man for himself and thats how it is now. There is no more brotherhood. Darn right im gonna do what it takes to save MY career. Im not gonna be some sacrificial lamb just so someone else can take the flying anyway

 

[Ifly4money]

D'angelo this must be your first airline. Keep up the attitude that it won't happen to me. I did this at my first airline as well till I got the pinkslip in the mail. If $17mill is all that is keeping the doors of CMR open then the business model that managment is using is screwed and skewed to far out of whack and we will never be viable company again.

If you vote for this the only guarantee you will be getting is that management will be back again in a short while after they beat Mesa, CHQ and ASA down bellow the artificaly low DCI average. We will again be topdog and will have to play catchup again on our way down the drain.

As you say you don't want to be a "sacrificial lamb" well voting for this you will be. They won't kill you with the first blow maybe not the second but by the time they get to the 5th or 6th you won't want to play in the sandbox anymore.

Be a man and standup for yourself. As I said before I have a wife and 4 children that depend on MY PAYCHECK alone to survive! Taking a second job just so I can afford to be a pilot is not my idea of the American dream. I love what I do everyday I do it, but until the remove the CMR sign from the building and replace it with "Salvation Army" I'm not volunteering my professional services to a FOR PROFIT entity. I save volunteering to my church and other worthwhile NON-PROFIT orginizations that I see fit to donate to!

From your previous post D'Angelo I see that you only lookout for #1 and thats only you. I don't want to start a flame debate with you nor am I trying to, but you must look beyond self and look at the whole.

Someone famous once said "You can hang together, or least you swing alone"

The brotherhood of piloting is a very small group of people and I for one don't intend on helping drag down a family member. If CMR does indeed foldup I will personally help Fred pack his crap in the back of the Lear and wave to him as he heads back to ATL, then I'll go to the GO and help turn-off the lights!

 

[Crossky]

so your saying you would rather be hired and start all over than keep your senority just to prove a point. If the pilots really appriciated what has been done in the past they would have struck to get CMR level contracts. They didnt. They chose to undercut now its a fight to save ones job. Its turned into every man for himself and thats how it is now. There is no more brotherhood. Darn right im gonna do what it takes to save MY career. Im not gonna be some sacrificial lamb just so someone else can take the flying anyway

Yes, don't you believe you're hireable somewhere else? At Air Wis, I flew with a former 5 yr FO from ACA the other day. It's tough playing the airline game, cause the next day my FO was hired here at 250 hrs with a $13K CRJ type, and the inexperience to prove it. Life IS unfair. It might be unfair to YOUR 'career'. It's your choice to have a spine and stand up for what you are worth or not.

As a comparison, look at what the fractionals are paying new FO's and CA's now, and their pilots sit around quite a bit, position the A/C empty a fair amount, and only carry a few passengers: 1st yr FO approx. $40K, 5th yr CA approx. $90K. There's only two regionals I know of in bankruptcy. You might say that an apples to oranges comparison, but I know thousands of RJ pilots who might disagree with you.

 

[Ifly4money]

Some people would put up with the crap mgmnt puts out for $1/hr. I won't! I'd rather go back to working with computers in the basement of some office building than race to the bottom with someone that thought it would be cool to be an airline pilot.

I have wanted this job since I was 8 years old now many years later I would walk away from it and never set foot back in a pax terminal again rather than be humilated by working for less than the guy at walmart.

How do you keep saying "welcome to walmart" and keep a straingt face anyhow?

 

[tomcash]

I have wanted this job since I was 8 years old now many years later I would walk away from it and never set foot back in a pax terminal again rather than be humilated by working for less than the guy at walmart. quote]

IFlyForMoney's philosophy of the airline pilot labor group is one that should be instilled in every pilot.

After reading posts on this forum for several weeks, it is apparent many pilots lack a basic understanding of business concepts. These same pilots exhibit an overall lack of maturity. This myopic view of their industry combined with narrow-minded union leadership is quickly contributing to the true race to the bottom.

Airline pilots willing to work for less than scab wages, agreeing to training contracts for slightly better than minimum wage, and giving away everything their elder professionals have spent decades achieving is reprehensible.

To those reading this thinking that IFlyForMoney's concepts (they are actually fundamentals) do not apply to you personally, educate yourself on the history of the industry in which you claim to be a professional.

cash

 

[D'Angelo]

So anyway can anyone prove they are making less than walmart wages. Put aside 1st year pay at all airlines and tell me one regional airline besides the turboprops that pay less than walmart. You guys are reallllly dramatic. Sorry I vote to keep my job and im not going to "hold the line" only to get sandbagged by someone else. You talk about new pilots having stars in their eyes. I think its pilots thinking they can actually "hold the line" that have stars in their eyes

 

[twobits]

unfortunately, voting yes might just seal your fate in the way you may not think. There are some scary possibilities if CMR pilots vote yes. Of course, as everyone has pointed out, there is also the potential demise of the airline if CMR votes NO. Getting rid of the no furlough clause could mean that MESA will buy Comair. It could also mean Delta merges DL and CMR (unlikely) and comes up with some wierd integration that furloughes massive numbers of Comair pilots.

Not saying which way I would vote, but Fred needs to take a chill pill. He can't have it both ways, wanting to have a good relationship with employees while slashing their pay and lifestyle. If he really wants to sell this, he will cap his salary at the highest paid pilot for each year and throw in a 10% overide for having to put up with his own BS every day. ok, bedtime. Good Luck Comair!!

 

[Thedude]

To all of you who call yourselves regional pilots which region do we operatate in anways? ...blah...blah...blah...blah.

You are about 5 yrs to late but at least guys at the regionals are starting to wake up and see what is really happening to the industry. And I am going to go out on a limb here and say most of the commuter guys on this board were probably hired after Sept 2001.
I say you can place a lot of the blame on American Eagle. Remember...they are the ones that signed the SIXTEEN year contract do get those damn RJ. And of course it has been a downhill slide since then. Oh wait, I can’t forget all those geniuses over at Comair that paid the $13k to go fly those things too.
I would like to remind the guys that fly for companies that are NOT wholly owned buy the parent company. You are nothing more than a CONTRACTOR. You go when and where the guy footing the bill tells you to go. Its that simple, you dont own that flying.
I for one will be glad when the regionals return to what they once were and what they were inteded for.


Rant over.