The Perfect STORM: Oil Gets Above $49 - Not Good....

[jetblue320]

Dude, get off your LCC high horse! Half the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**en reason this industry and namely our profession is suffering so bad is because assholes like you take jobs at carriers that pay 1/2 the wages of the so called "legacy" airlines.

Lets see how your fuel hedge does if JB were paying you pre-concession UAL rates on that Bus??

Why don't you get off your drugs? If you had a brain, you wouldn't make stupid statements like that. And FWIW, my pay is a LOT more than half of a legacy airline.

This industry is "suffering" because of greedy, spineless pricks like you.

Try not to be so bitter.

 

[Ty Webb]

There are some good points raised here, but so far, no one has pointed out that the price isn't just determined by LCC's, it is also a function of capacity.

As an example, Delta flys six flights a day from from PNS to ATL and charges $500. R/T. AirTran comes in with 3 717 flights a day at $258. Delta matches the fare, and adds three more flights a day, in an attempt to "keep marketshare". AirTran lowers the rate to $218. Delta matches. AirTran makes a little money, Delta loses a lot of money.

Now, what would have happened if Delta hadn't put three additional flights in there (at a loss)? AirTran's flights would be full, they would raise the price, Delta would raise the price, and eventually, Delta and AirTran would BOTH be flying pax at a price that they could each make money at.

In other words, there are two factors at work here. The LCC may set a lower price, but the Legacy's response of adding capacity keeps the price low.

Also, LCC's do go to smaller communities. AirTran goes to Bloomington IL, Moline IL, Gulfport MS, Akron OH, Myrtle Beach, etc. Pick up a copy of SWA's schedule, and look at some of the places they go to. ATA has service to places you probably couldn;t even find on a map without a couple of hints. Not every town will have air service, unless they are willing to pay for it. Otherwise, they can drive an hour or so to the "big city". That's just part of living in the sticks.

FWIW, AirTran is comfortably hedged as well. It's in the quarterly statement, at around $1.05 or $1.10 / gal. Fuel hedging is covered in the 10-Q report of each airline, if anyone wants to look them up.

 

[Patriot328]

Gov't then FORCES UAL/AA to give up slots at ORD, only to then be filled in by FLYI......more RJ's to ORD.

bullsh*t. ORD isn't a slot airport. ACA went from 140-ish flights a day to 12. 92% reduction. If you are saying flyI's 12 flights a day are the crux of ORD's woes, you're nuts.

 

[drag]

Never said FLYI's 12 flights a day are the crux of ORD's woes. What I said was that the gov't forces AA/UA to give up time slots. This was to ease conjestion. These time vacancies are then filled by another carrier. Now that's B/S....and a fact. As my memory serves me, I don't recall ACA ever serving ORD. I do know that ACA was contracted out to be feeder for UAL. I may be wrong, perhaps you can tell me when ACA began serving ORD. What gate did they use? Also, where was their ticket counter? Thanks for the info.

 

[Patriot328]

As my memory serves me, I don't recall ACA ever serving ORD. I do know that ACA was contracted out to be feeder for UAL. I may be wrong, perhaps you can tell me when ACA began serving ORD. What gate did they use? Also, where was their ticket counter? Thanks for the info.

FAA went by operating certificates.. ACA's been there for years.

 

[HA25]

Why don't you get off your drugs? If you had a brain, you wouldn't make stupid statements like that. And FWIW, my pay is a LOT more than half of a legacy airline.

This industry is "suffering" because of greedy, spineless pricks like you.

Try not to be so bitter.

Sorry pal, but I don't buy it.... while DALPA is holding the bar up as long as they can and keeping work rules and scope at bay, NWA and AMR trying to do the same, you guys are eating their corporate lunch with your scab like wages and workrules (read pilot productivity)... and don't give me this profit share bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** since most JB pilots didn't get the fancy stock options the first few did... let's see what happens when the economy turns around, are you gonna raise the bar for the rest of us, or just help us race to the bottom...

 

[jetblue320]

Sorry pal, but I don't buy it.... while DALPA is holding the bar up as long as they can and keeping work rules and scope at bay, NWA and AMR trying to do the same, you guys are eating their corporate lunch with your scab like wages and workrules (read pilot productivity)... and don't give me this profit share bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** since most JB pilots didn't get the fancy stock options the first few did... let's see what happens when the economy turns around, are you gonna raise the bar for the rest of us, or just help us race to the bottom...

The stock options and profit sharing "bull" you refer to are two separate items and have nothing to do with each other.

I can see that you feel that productivity is a bad thing so I won't waste my time with that way of thinking. The economy affects all the airlines, some more than others. So I guess what you are saying is you need Jetblue (and others) to maintain "your" standard of living, is that right? How are a bunch of "scabs" gonna do that? And do you think for one second that the DALPA boys are in this mess they are in to maintain the profession to include Jetblue?

Get a grip on yourself.

Like I said many times already, you are just too bitter. But, try to have a good day anyway.

 

[skirt]

your scab like wages and workrules (read pilot productivity)... QUOTE]

Hmmm.... let me get this straight... As pilots we fly for a living. That means we get paid to fly, not paid to sit at home or sit in a lounge chair at the airport. Cracks me up that you think working is bad!

Maybe I can rephrase productivity so even you can understand. Productivity while working equals more days not working. I did a comparison before coming here. 15 days off at an "unproductive" legacy airline on narrowbody aircraft meant about 75-80 hours (with mid level seniority). 15 days off at JB usually means 85-90 hours (with mid level seniority). For example, this month I have 15 days off and 92 hours, with 8 months seniority. That extra 10 hours of pay for the same days of work very quickly erases any difference in pay, and then exceeds it. Remember, any flying over 70 hours at JetBlue is time and a half.

I would much rather fly while at "work" than sit around on 3 hour unpaid "productivity breaks" between banks at a hub.

Skirt

 

[HA25]

your scab like wages and workrules (read pilot productivity)... QUOTE]

Hmmm.... let me get this straight... As pilots we fly for a living. That means we get paid to fly, not paid to sit at home or sit in a lounge chair at the airport. Cracks me up that you think working is bad!

Maybe I can rephrase productivity so even you can understand. Productivity while working equals more days not working. I did a comparison before coming here. 15 days off at an "unproductive" legacy airline on narrowbody aircraft meant about 75-80 hours (with mid level seniority). 15 days off at JB usually means 85-90 hours (with mid level seniority). For example, this month I have 15 days off and 92 hours, with 8 months seniority. That extra 10 hours of pay for the same days of work very quickly erases any difference in pay, and then exceeds it. Remember, any flying over 70 hours at JetBlue is time and a half.

I would much rather fly while at "work" than sit around on 3 hour unpaid "productivity breaks" between banks at a hub.

Skirt

If you expect me to believe that the concessions taken at UAL,AA, and others are only causing guys to fly more hours with the same number of days off, you are smoking something you shouldn't be while working as a pilot. The FACT is quality of life at the "legacy" airlines is way down, pay is way down, and the airline industry is coming apart. Our profession is at an all time new low.... work rules and safety (rest) rules are under strong pressure all because you and our other fine LCC are whoring their employees in the name of $85 round trip tix from JFK to SFO...

no pal, you get a grip! ... JB320, so where's your pension plan? A and B fund?? Or is the only way you get some money at your retirement to whore your self out at substandard wages for 20 years? Where do you think JB's profits are going to go if ALL Legacy airlines turn into $85 LCC's? huh?

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right I'm bitter, so the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** what?

I'm done with this useless conversation.

 

[Ty Webb]

The FACT is quality of life at the "legacy" airlines is way down, pay is way down, and the airline industry is coming apart. Our profession is at an all time new low.... work rules and safety (rest) rules are under strong pressure all because you and our other fine LCC are whoring their employees in the name of $85 round trip tix from JFK to SFO...

Spoken like a true idiot.

The reason that your legacy carriers are in such a mess is because of bad management and greedy unions. Blaming other pilots for working a other carriers is just wishful thinking.

Try to get your mind around this one, pal:

Your carrier is keeping MY wages low by dumping seats into the marketplace at a price that you can't make money at. How do you like that? And you are perpetuating it by voting in lower and lower pay rates to enable them to keep doing it for longer, thereby depressing MY wages . . . . friggin' legacy scab!



Heh-heh.