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The Passion of the Christ

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Perhaps a little unfair.

My quote,

<<--But did anyone else catch the subtle symbology of the Devil walking amongst the Jews while Jesus was carrying the cross?>>

I admit that statement may be a little unfair.

But the impression I had was of the Devil participating with the crowd in the jeering and humiliation of Jesus. Or, maybe not actively participating but at least reveling in the activity.

I acknowledge that the Devil didn't interact with anyone except Jesus who, as Super80 pointed out, refused to engage.

Furthermore the Devil wasn't acting as part of the mob but as an individual.

But it just felt real sinister to watch him slither behind or among the crowd rather than step outside as a lone character.

He seemed to almost hide behind or take shelter in the crowd.

I'm probably reading too much into it.
 
No Mar, I think you nailed it.

That's the way he operates in the bible, behind the scenes, kind of like the cue ball effect on a pool table, hitting other balls, sending them in motion, which finally hit the ball that ends up in the side pocket-very indirect, but moving all the right players.

It seems that's kind of his MO, especially in this case, I think they say the key to his success is the secrecy of his moves.

Very astute observations regarding pressure of Christ's weight against the nails in his hands up on the cross, and him being the one who dragged the cross through the city.

In fact, many biblical scholars and researchers think the same as you do on these points.
 
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wms said:
Incredibly Malcus, the one whose ear was healed, testified against Jesus before the high priest as a false witness. It was his testimony which the high priest felt was enough to condemn Jesus.

Just curious, where did you find this?
 
The only other reference I can find about Malchus is in John 18:26

But one of the household servants of the high priest, a relative of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, asked, "Didn't I see you out there in the olive grove with Jesus?" 27Again Peter denied it. And immediately a rooster crowed.

Can't find in any of the Gospels where Malchus was a witness against Jesus.
 
I just saw this last night and here's my .02; F-L-O-P. Granted, it was intense but only due to the graphic and extended violence but it takes much more than that to produce a good film. The violence only compensated for bad writing. As for the acting. I guess Mel got actors that duplicate his own over-acting style. I did think that Pontius Pilate's role was acted well. Sorry Mel, you ruined your cheesey action film career for nothing.

Oh well, just my own opinion. If you don't like it, sue me.



I bet that the secularists are wetting their pants, at least I hope so.

Wetting our pants? This is just plain silly. You seem to think that we "secularists" are in opposition to your beliefs. I'm all for it as long as long as your beliefs don't infringe upon me.

This could be the start of something positive in our country

Your optimism might be shared with some but, get a grip,.....it's just a movie.:rolleyes:
 
Typhoon1244 said:
I did the same thing at the end of Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country, when the Enterprise cruised off into the sunset for the last time.

The last movie that I cried at was Saving Private Ryan. At the very end when modern times Ryan says,

"I hope at least in your eyes, that I earned what you guys did for me that day."
 
BornAgainPagan said:
I just saw this last night and here's my .02; F-L-O-P. Granted, it was intense but only due to the graphic and extended violence but it takes much more than that to produce a good film. The violence only compensated for bad writing. As for the acting. I guess Mel got actors that duplicate his own over-acting style. I did think that Pontius Pilate's role was acted well. Sorry Mel, you ruined your cheesey action film career for nothing.

Oh well, just my own opinion. If you don't like it, sue me.





Wetting our pants? This is just plain silly. You seem to think that we "secularists" are in opposition to your beliefs. I'm all for it as long as long as your beliefs don't infringe upon me.



Your optimism might be shared with some but, get a grip,.....it's just a movie.:rolleyes:

What a shocker. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
What a shocker.

Oooh! You have more rolling eyes than me! I'm impressed! Wait a minute:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

so there!

"Shocked" now?

:rolleyes:
 
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BornAgainPagan said:
Granted, it was intense but only due to the graphic and extended violence but it takes much more than that to produce a good film.
I heard one reviewer call it a "two-hour snuff film." (Of course, he was probably part of the satanic Zionist plot to discredit the movie... :D )
Originally posted by Swass
This could be the start of something positive in our country.
Movies don't change things in this country. We didn't all become peace activists when Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan tried to show us the terrible realities of war.

Putting aside all the hype, The Passion of the Christ is actually going to be a lot like a Star Trek movie: the true fans are going to greet it with overwhelming enthusiasm while everybody else gets on with their lives.


(Speaking of hype: Bibles with James Caviezel's picture on them? A Passion of the Christ racecar? What's next? A Lego crucifixion set? Passion glasses at Burger King? Is Christianity going to throw dignity to the wind for this movie? :eek: )
 
(Speaking of hype: Bibles with James Caviezel's picture on them? A Passion of the Christ racecar? What's next? A Lego crucifixion set? Passion glasses at Burger King? Is Christianity going to throw dignity to the wind for this movie? )

You forgot action figures and flogging tools. An oh; Passion the Toilet Paper!

(okay, stole that one from Spaceballs)
 
BornAgainPagan said:
Passion the Toilet Paper!
Watch out for that crown of thorns! :eek:





(I know, I can't believe I said that either.)

(Maybe the Devil made me do it...)
 
BornAgainPagan said:
Oooh! You have more rolling eyes than me! I'm impressed! Wait a minute:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

so there!

"Shocked" now?

:rolleyes:

Snoogins! More rolling eyes. Unfortunately escalation will be self-defeating. I'll add more, you add more, but eventually the site will limit us to a certain number of rolleyes and we will be deadlocked.

My intention was not to comment really on your opinion of the movie (I haven't seen it yet), but to display my feeling that you might not have gone into the movie with the most objectivity. I did the same thing with Legally Blonde 2. It was not quite my cup of tea. Therefore, I thought the movie was one of the worst I had seen. I'm projecting my own motivations on you. Sorry if I misunderstand, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I don't. ;)
 
chawbein said:
More rolling eyes. Unfortunately escalation will be self-defeating. I'll add more, you add more, but eventually the site will limit us to a certain number of rolleyes and we will be deadlocked.
A wonderul summary of the Cold War principle of MAR...Mutually Assured Rolleyes. :rolleyes:

(In my best George C. Scott voice...) "Mister President, we cannot allow a rolleyes gap!"
 
Actually, this movie has changed lives already, and I don't mean that unfortunate woman that had a heart attack.

As far a Mel Gibson is concerned, he had his awakening a while back when he realized the good life was not all there was. And even if he throws away all the material wealth he could have earned, he may have stored some treasure in heaven with this film to more than make up for it.

I think in reviewing it with my Pastor, that it is important to say to the Christian community that this movie incorporates Mel Gibson's Catholic faith. The stations of the cross were first formulated in Church theology between A.D. 381-384. These stations are displayed in the movie. Also, the poignant scene frozen for more than several seconds after Jesus' body is lowered from the cross (another station) mimics very well I'm told a famous painting on the subject.

While there is a Catholic influence in the movie's depiction, it is more than rewarding for all Christians and non-Christians alike. Even with my critiques, I am glad Mel Gibson made this movie, and I am glad I went to see it. I think there will be many that come to Christ in repentence and become Christians too. Tomorrow I will be counseling any that seek it after one of the showings of The Passion of the Christ. And for others, they will search out the Gospel account and read what is written about it in the Scripture.

That some here deride and mock the film...well what did you expect from the world?
 
Super 80 said:
That some here deride and mock the film...well what did you expect from the world?
Sanity. Thought. Logic.

They've been hard to come by lately.
 
Pain

Personnally I thought that the lenghthy time it took for the torturous scenes was not long enough. It certainly was nowwhere near as long as it was in real life.

At one point, I found myself wincing at the sounds of the off set lashes while Mary was depicted away from watching it.

The Devil walking through the crowds and the baby being held were impactful. It wasn't walking through the Jews, it was the walking along and watching his adversary struggling, that was the message. The baby to show that he could have a son as well.

I thought the symbology was excellent but no more excellent than what God chose for us.
 
What pastors do when not at the movie theaters...

WASHINGTON — America's top bishop declared Friday that the days of sheltering sex abusers in the Roman Catholic priesthood were "history" as two reports showed how pervasive assaults on minors have been over the last half-century, and that church leaders bore much of the blame.

"The terrible history recorded here today is history," said Bishop Wilton Gregory (search), president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (search ). Victims of molestation countered that they remain skeptical of church leaders' good faith.

• Raw Data: John Jay College Report

The two new reports represent an unprecedented look at abuse crisis, partly because they were done with the cooperation of church leaders. They're certain to lead to months of debate on such hot-button issues as whether gays should be screened from the priesthood.

A panel of Catholic lay people charged by the prelates with investigating the abuse crisis, the National Review Board, issued both a survey tallying molestation claims and costs from 1950 to 2002 and a companion study explaining how the problem happened.

The survey found 10,667 abuse claims over the decades. About 4 percent of all American clerics who served during the time studied — 4,392 of the 109,694 priests and others under vows to the church — were accused of abuse. The percentage of abusers in society at large is unknown because studies are inconclusive.

The tally also calculated abuse-related costs such as litigation and counseling at $572 million, and noted that the figure does not cover at least $85 million in settlements over the past year. The survey was conducted for the review board by John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"There is absolutely no excuse for what occurred in the Catholic Church," said Robert Bennett, a Washington attorney and review board member. "This is not a media crisis or a personnel crisis. It's the age-old question of right and wrong, good and evil."

Sue Archibald, president of the victim advocacy group The Linkup, said the reports were a positive step. But she called the studies "an incomplete body count" that focused too narrowly on healing the church instead of helping victims.

"Today's most important question should be, 'What happens tomorrow?'" Archibald said.

Gregory agreed, calling the findings an "urgent summons" to reach out to victims. "We have nothing to fear from the truth or from the past if we learn from it," he said.

The review board said neither celibacy nor the presence of gay priests were causes of the scandal, but both issues needed to be examined.

It noted that more than 80 percent of the alleged victims were male and over half said they were between ages 11 and 14 when they were assaulted.

Gregory said the bishops and the Vatican were already discussing whether gays should be ordained. But he affirmed that many homosexual clergy have remained celibate and have served the church well.

The reports also raised questions about whether bishops who sheltered accusers should resign. Bishops answer only to the Vatican, not each other. Still, the review board urged them to find a means to hold each other responsible for failures to protect children.

Asked whether errant church leaders should step down, Gregory said only that "each case has to be judged individually," then he noted that many of the "bad decisions" in abuse cases occurred decades ago.

"Fortunately, most of those bishops are no longer in service," he said. Gregory also noted that, since the abuse problem rose to national prominence two years ago, 700 accused priests and deacon have been removed from Catholic dioceses.

Some bishops had resisted participating in the studies, but John Jay said they ultimately received survey responses from 97 percent of the nation's 195 dioceses, plus 142 religious communities.

Victims' advocates said the numbers were sure to be an underestimate partly because many victims wait years to come forward.

Researchers agreed. They said dioceses examining individual cases of offenders estimated there may be 3,000 additional victims who have not filed claims.

Peter Isely, a Milwaukee psychotherapist and board member of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said he was less concerned about the overall numbers than about who was monitoring guilty priests.

He said bishops should release the names of offenders in the clergy to fulfill their pledge of protecting children.

"A number is not very useful to Catholic parents who want to know if there has been a sex offender in their parish or school," Isely said.

Some dioceses have released names of accused clergy, including those in Los Angeles and Baltimore. Asked if more should follow suit, Gregory said it's a decision for individual bishops, not the full bishops' conference.

Even after more than two years of continuing reports on abuse cases, the new data provides a startling look at what victims suffered.

About half were molested for a year or more, and 17 percent of families had more than one child victimized. The researchers noted that priests who had just one claim against them often assaulted that one victim repeatedly. Relatively few priests committed only minor acts of abuse such as touching over a victim's clothes, the researchers said.

Only 2 percent of abusers were sent to prison for what they had done
 
We didn't all become peace activists when Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan tried to show us the terrible realities of war.

No, we had The Trial of Billy Jack for that. I still wake up in the morning humming "give peace a chance," before recovering long enough to kick someone in the stomach with bare feet.

What a great movie.
 
avbug said:
No, we had The Trial of Billy Jack for that. I still wake up in the morning humming "give peace a chance," before recovering long enough to kick someone in the stomach with bare feet.

What a great movie.

Stomach, heck, he kicked him on the side of the face.

:cool:

8N
 

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