The myth about USAIR East growth

[MCDU]

It seems that many West pilots seem to think that the East is growing. The reason for movement is attrition and the West wants it.

Take note:

Last furlough June 4, 2003, bid 03 - 04.
The east group downsized through the list through attrition only.

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 05-01 covering May 2005: 2892

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 08-02 covering May 2008: 2800

Of the 2800 pilot positions on the east bid for May of 2008, 94 are E-190 F/O's.

May 2005 to May 2008, per company bid, the East shrank by 92 pilots total and additionally replaced group 2 F/O seats with 94 E-190 F/O seats.

No growth has occurred since the merger announcement, all movement has been through attrition only. This is what the West wants so badly.
They call us Scabs, even though we want permanent fences. How can you take some ones job with permanent fences?

Beware Junior EAST pilots, you will be furlough fodder again if the Nic award is used. The most junior West pilot will have close to 1000 pilots behind him by years end. All newhire east pilots will benefit from our very old pilot group. The west scab pilots wants our jobs out East, that is why they do not want any fences.

Marty

 

[dashocho]

Congrats! YOU are exactly what management is hoping for. You are divided and beaten. The longer you drag out an agreement that you guys already agreed to both sides work for crappy wages.

Another note, calling another pilot a scab because their opinion isn't the same as yours........you deserve a real nice wakeup call that I'm sure many west guys would love to help you out with.

How old are you?? Act like it. You guys really look like a bunch of spoiled children that didn't get their way so they took their toys home. it's insulting to the rest of us.

 

[regionaltard]

...we want permanent fences.

There was a time and place to make that argument. Hint: it's not now on Flight Info.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

It seems that many West pilots seem to think that the East is growing. The reason for movement is attrition and the West wants it.

Take note:

Last furlough June 4, 2003, bid 03 - 04.
The east group downsized through the list through attrition only.

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 05-01 covering May 2005: 2892

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 08-02 covering May 2008: 2800

Of the 2800 pilot positions on the east bid for May of 2008, 94 are E-190 F/O's.

May 2005 to May 2008, per company bid, the East shrank by 92 pilots total and additionally replaced group 2 F/O seats with 94 E-190 F/O seats.

No growth has occurred since the merger announcement, all movement has been through attrition only. This is what the West wants so badly.
They call us Scabs, even though we want permanent fences. How can you take some ones job with permanent fences?

Beware Junior EAST pilots, you will be furlough fodder again if the Nic award is used. The most junior West pilot will have close to 1000 pilots behind him by years end. All newhire east pilots will benefit from our very old pilot group. The west scab pilots wants our jobs out East, that is why they do not want any fences.

Marty

Marty,

We save you from death and from yourselves and this is the thanks we get? You are a complete idiot and will soon be jobless as a result!

You east folk lost nothing as a result of OUR BUYING YOU, you had jobs, health ins, a renewed career and now you turn into invasion of the body snatchers. DOH are you fking kidding me??? How on Gods earth is that fair??? Let me guess because that's that way is was done 20yrs ago right??

Can't wait for the demise of this company so people like you will be unemployed!!!

Go day to you and give my best to James Garbett I hear he is an early entrant for company retirement! Care to tell us why???

WD.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Vote for USAPA and send in $200.... at least... otherwise in will be all for nothing..

 

[Doug Parker]

Marty,

We save you from death and from yourselves and this is the thanks we get? You are a complete idiot and will soon be jobless as a result!

You east folk lost nothing as a result of OUR BUYING YOU, you had jobs, health ins, a renewed career and now you turn into invasion of the body snatchers. DOH are you fking kidding me??? How on Gods earth is that fair??? Let me guess because that's that way is was done 20yrs ago right??

Can't wait for the demise of this company so people like you will be unemployed!!!

Go day to you and give my best to James Garbett I hear he is an early entrant for company retirement! Care to tell us why???

WD.

Now Wiskey,

Don't be trying to talk sense into those Eastwipes - there is no changing their "Revisionist History" views!

F-USAPA

 

[JoeMerchant]

Vote for USAPA and send in $200.... at least... otherwise in will be all for nothing..

....remain ALPA and send in even more....all for nothing.....

 

[JetMonkey]

It seems that many West pilots seem to think that the East is growing. The reason for movement is attrition and the West wants it.

Take note:

Last furlough June 4, 2003, bid 03 - 04.
The east group downsized through the list through attrition only.

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 05-01 covering May 2005: 2892

The pilot count (East total system pilots) per bid 08-02 covering May 2008: 2800

Of the 2800 pilot positions on the east bid for May of 2008, 94 are E-190 F/O's.

May 2005 to May 2008, per company bid, the East shrank by 92 pilots total and additionally replaced group 2 F/O seats with 94 E-190 F/O seats.

No growth has occurred since the merger announcement, all movement has been through attrition only. No growth huh? How bout several European cities, Heathrow, and China next year. 3 757's and 25 new EMB 190's all went to the east, and what the west got out of all of that was IOU's.
This is what the West wants so badly. All I want so badly is for the stagnation out west to stop
They call us Scabs, even though we want permanent fences. How can you take some ones job with permanent fences?
Permanent fences? Are you guys for real?That's the most asinine idea ever, might as well suggest separate companies permanently? Even though I said no one is willing to commute all the way to PHL to fly a 330 red eye, to suggest that a NEW HIRE has rights to fly a widebody over ALL west pilots is quite absurd.
Beware Junior EAST pilots, you will be furlough fodder again if the Nic award is used. The most junior West pilot will have close to 1000 pilots behind him by years end. All newhire east pilots will benefit from our very old pilot group. The west scab pilots wants our jobs out East, that is why they do not want any fences.
Marty

Yeah, there's 800 or so FO's who want nothing more than to commute clear cross-country (especially PHL ) for an upgrade.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

....remain ALPA and send in even more....all for nothing.....

We are talking about value....

You just admitted ALPA delivered FDX a rich contract....

If you are so tuff.... then refuse to pay dues...

 

[JoeMerchant]

We are talking about value....

You just admitted ALPA delivered FDX a rich contract....

If you are so tuff.... then refuse to pay dues...

I would.....but unfortunately in 1998, as a member of the negotiating committee, I negotiated Agency Shop....If it wasn't for the contract I helped negotiate, I would stop paying dues.......

ALPA can deliver rich contracts...but it can't protect jobs.....The best contract in the world isn't worth a roll of TP if you lose your job.....

The best regional contracts belonged to CMR, ALG, PDT, CCAir, ACA, and Air Wisc...

I'm more interested in protecting my job than crowing about an industry leading contract....

 

[Crzipilot]

Ok big deal, there are new destinations and some airplane deliveries. Were they growth??? don't think so, if there is growth, then the total number of pilot positions grows. (I believe the definition of growth, means to have more than what you had. I could be wrong)
So when I look at the total pilot positions since the announcement of the merger has decreased, I fail to see where the growth is.

In addition I keep hearing about these seats we owe you on the 757's. yes it's in the T/A. but what you fail to mention is after the acquisition of these NEW airframes, there was this little announcement that there were airplanes being returned......soooooo where are the growth seats you speak of????? (I could be wrong, but not in the mood to go research it completely) As All I hear from the West is......YOU OWE ME>....YOU OWE ME...... it's like the little orphaned kid that was abused all his life, gets adopted and now determines he's owed a lifetime of rewards.
Maybe it's my tunnel vision. but I haven't heard a tremendous amount from the EAST about what the west owes them. They have repeatedly said they will not give away their seniority, that it's not for sale.

Of course now, the West will come out with their crystal balls and explain how their airline was the best run, and turbo growth airline around. and how we should bow down to the skygods from the west, and snivle at their feet for saving us. I guess we should open our houses and offer our wives and kids, since the west was our saviors........ya...

Come April 17th, we'll know what the next step is, until then, it doesn't matter. And all the talk from the West that USAPA can't vacate the NIC, what's your problem??? Why are you worried?

 

[Prog 2/2]

Ok big deal, there are new destinations and some airplane deliveries. Were they growth??? don't think so, if there is growth, then the total number of pilot positions grows. (I believe the definition of growth, means to have more than what you had. I could be wrong)
So when I look at the total pilot positions since the announcement of the merger has decreased, I fail to see where the growth is.

In addition I keep hearing about these seats we owe you on the 757's. yes it's in the T/A. but what you fail to mention is after the acquisition of these NEW airframes, there was this little announcement that there were airplanes being returned......soooooo where are the growth seats you speak of????? (I could be wrong, but not in the mood to go research it completely) As All I hear from the West is......YOU OWE ME>....YOU OWE ME...... it's like the little orphaned kid that was abused all his life, gets adopted and now determines he's owed a lifetime of rewards.
Maybe it's my tunnel vision. but I haven't heard a tremendous amount from the EAST about what the west owes them. They have repeatedly said they will not give away their seniority, that it's not for sale.

Of course now, the West will come out with their crystal balls and explain how their airline was the best run, and turbo growth airline around. and how we should bow down to the skygods from the west, and snivle at their feet for saving us. I guess we should open our houses and offer our wives and kids, since the west was our saviors........ya...

Come April 17th, we'll know what the next step is, until then, it doesn't matter. And all the talk from the West that USAPA can't vacate the NIC, what's your problem??? Why are you worried?

And here we have a shining example of the complete disconnect from reality that is the average eastie's thought process.

All vitriolic ranting and emotional diatribe with little basis in anything resembling untwisted facts.

Every new airframe to come to this property post-merger has been crewed by the east.

Every single one.

The benefit of that has been movement on your list, exactly as would have occured with an increase in total jobs.


If you want credit for "your attrition", then I want compensation for what is making that attrition possible; namely, a complete stagnation of legitimate, quantifiable career expectations on the west.

 

[abefly]

Ok big deal, there are new destinations and some airplane deliveries. Were they growth??? don't think so, if there is growth, then the total number of pilot positions grows. (I believe the definition of growth, means to have more than what you had. I could be wrong)
So when I look at the total pilot positions since the announcement of the merger has decreased, I fail to see where the growth is.

In addition I keep hearing about these seats we owe you on the 757's. yes it's in the T/A. but what you fail to mention is after the acquisition of these NEW airframes, there was this little announcement that there were airplanes being returned......soooooo where are the growth seats you speak of????? (I could be wrong, but not in the mood to go research it completely) As All I hear from the West is......YOU OWE ME>....YOU OWE ME...... it's like the little orphaned kid that was abused all his life, gets adopted and now determines he's owed a lifetime of rewards.
Maybe it's my tunnel vision. but I haven't heard a tremendous amount from the EAST about what the west owes them. They have repeatedly said they will not give away their seniority, that it's not for sale.

Of course now, the West will come out with their crystal balls and explain how their airline was the best run, and turbo growth airline around. and how we should bow down to the skygods from the west, and snivle at their feet for saving us. I guess we should open our houses and offer our wives and kids, since the west was our saviors........ya...

Come April 17th, we'll know what the next step is, until then, it doesn't matter. And all the talk from the West that USAPA can't vacate the NIC, what's your problem??? Why are you worried?

idiot..........uke:

 

[PCL_128]

Vote for USAPA and send in $200.... at least... otherwise in will be all for nothing..

They could send in $1000 a piece, and it would still all be for nothing. uSAPa means the end of USAirways. If you want your airline to survive, vote ALPA, and then work to develop fences that are acceptable to both sides.

 

[Prog 2/2]

If you want your airline to survive, vote ALPA, and then work to develop fences that are acceptable to both sides.

The Nicolau award contained what the arbitration panel considered to be appropriate fences to protect the career expectations of the east.

Believe me when I tell you that no material modification of those fences is either acceptable to, or viewed as appropriate by, any west pilot.

If this union is to survive, the EC had best figure out a way to implement the policy that it is entrusted to uphold.