The myth about USAIR East growth

[rtmcfi]

They could send in $1000 a piece, and it would still all be for nothing. uSAPa means the end of USAirways. If you want your airline to survive, vote ALPA, and then work to develop fences that are acceptable to both sides.

How about the East folks accept the BINDING nic award?

 

[Crzipilot]

Interesting. You have no answer to......the east side numbers have shrunk, but yet we have had growth???? I'd like that to happen to my bank account.

yes 3 new 757's came to property, as 3 left the property. 190's have shown up. how many 737's are being returned???

As the west side has shown in the past. When presented with facts, they resort down to name calling and whining. As my previous post stated, show me the facts on this turbo growth we have had?????

You blame the stagnation on the East side, but maybe I could bring my crystal ball out and say, your deliveries would have never showed up, maybe some airplanes returned, and you would have furloughed. don't know because it never went that far. Just as it never went as far as US liquidating. Would it have happened??? maybe, but it never went that far. So what we have to work with are the facts as they are and as they have happened.

 

[Crzipilot]

Oh yes, and not to mention our staffing levels were WAY lower than the West side, I think US was around 4-5 crews per airplane, whereas West was 7-8 or more per airplane, maybe more. either way, US was definately managed short staffed, for the merger...the recalls and such that have happened were to bring East back up to appropriate staffing levels....

 

[FR8mastr]

Try sitting reserve on the East, and you will see the Airline is still not staffed correctly.

 

[hyperboy]

Alpa blows

ALPA Blows and I am an alpa union member. USAPA is the way to go and stop the demoralization. ALPA can't enforce anything other than with the old BS saying grieve it. Then you can wait over 5 years for anything to really happen let alone be settled.

 

[UALjan15]

USAPA is the way to go and stop the demoralization. ALPA can't enforce anything other than with the old BS saying grieve it. Then you can wait over 5 years for anything to really happen let alone be settled.

OK, and exactly how does USAPA make things better? Let's see:

• Same management. They push the boundaries of the contract now, and I see them pushing harder with USAPA in hopes that the new union will be too busy trying to get the Nic overturned to deal with "small" issues like grievances.
• Is USAPA going to bring with it a new RLA that makes "BS" grievances unnecessary? How, exactly, are they going to get the contract enforced, if not by grievances?
• USAPA will no doubt eventually put a line pilot on the grievance committee--probably the same guy that used to do it under ALPA. The difference is that now he will have to do his job with less resources, and no help from National. Before you claim that such help is worthless, why don't you ask someone who has done that job if they could do it just as well all by themselves?

Enforcing the pilot contract is not easy work, and the union doesn't have much leverage with which to do the task. It's mostly about being consistent, persistent, and above all, just being a pain in the azz to management and doing your homework. In other words, it's more about the person(s) doing the job than it is about the name of the union. I would suggest that if you are having trouble with grievances at your airline, you should volunteer your time to help on that committee. And if you are still going to try to convince us that USAPA will all of the sudden make grievances go away (or make management honor the contract), don't waste your keystrokes.

 

[A350]

How is USAPA the end of USAirways?

I suppose ALPA will save USAirways?

Explain that please!

A350

 

[metrolet]

Exactly how much cash did AWA have on hand to buy USAirways?

 

[Green]

Exactly how much cash did AWA have on hand to buy USAirways?

Generally companies are acquired through financing. Former AWA shareholders/management now control Us Airways. They received a larger equity stake than the former Us Airways in the new company. It is very similar to buying a house. Few people pay cash outright for their homes yet they are still on the deed and control the asset.

 

[PositiveRate]

I suppose ALPA will save USAirways?

Actually, America West Holdings saved USAirways. ALPA may very well save you from yourselves in the coming weeks. I voted in favor of ALPA today.

Anyone who is seriously considering voting for USAPA needs to watch these videos and ask yourself - do you trust these men and their lawyer and are you willing to vote away your career protections and possibly put the final nail in this airline's coffin? For what...spite?

If you think the representation you received from ALPA has been poor (especially at the local level) you need to listen to these shaky voiced saviors of yours who admit - there is no back up plan or any real plan beyond attempting to fence AWA ad infinum and effectively 'buy' your seniority back? Good luck with that.

Here are the videos...

http://web.mac.com/dvcapture/USAPA/PHX.html

Here's a letter from a former furloughee as well....a very good synopsis.

As a 12-year member of ALPA, a 5-year First Officer with Alaska Airlines, a pilot with 2.5 years of active service at US Airways/Metrojet, a US Airways furloughee, and a volunteer supporter who walked the informational picket line with ALL US Airways pilots in Phoenix nearly a year ago, I’d like to offer a quick word of support for the professional pilots of the former America West Airlines. I am fully aware of the intricacies of your situation and frankly I am disgusted and appalled at the thuggish, anti-labor assault that is being forced upon you…an assault that is wearing the ridiculously thin veil of “Unionism”.

I understand that the USAPA organizers have come to the flawed conclusion that, “seniority lives in the contract”. We’ll, I have a different perspective on that. In my view, the primary driver affecting East seniority resides in the desert.

More precisely, in the desert surrounding the Mojave Airport in California.

After 9-11, Stephen Wolf and Rakesh Gangwal, the leading executives at the time, parked over 100 mainline aircraft in the Mojave Desert in the months that followed the attacks. Assuming, (as was customary at the time) the staffing requirement of six crews per aircraft. That equates to over 1200 pilot positions that simply evaporated into the hot thin air over Mojave…never to return.

Tragic? Certainly. Painful? Undoubtedly. I felt it personally. However, to make the misguided/malicious leap of logic that this lost East seniority can be blamed on, and regained from, the pilots of America West is confused (at best) and could more accurately be described as simple union busting (at worst).

I am highly sympathetic to the East pilots. I know many great people there and to this day count many of them among my good friends. Frankly, my time at AAA was the best I have ever experienced in this career. However, those 1200 jobs are gone forever. Speculating upon whose fault it was is pointless. I do know one thing with absolute certainty…ALPA didn’t give the order to park any jets and the America West pilots were completely blameless as well.

What’s the bottom line? Career Cancer is non-transferable. Any “union” founded on that singular principle and for that only purpose, has zero chance of success. Failure is simply unavoidable. From my perspective, I cannot believe that so many otherwise rational people are willing to be led by the nose down a path of certain failure and destruction. USAPA has no true plan, no true answers, no true infrastructure, no true financial process, no plan “B”, no history, no set precedents, no history of past practice, no industry support, never been tested in any way, will most certainly be sued into oblivion (BK), and most importantly, absolutely no TRUE way to deliver on all of their mindless; empty promises that have been virtually guaranteed.

These promises have been pledged with total disregard for facts, existing law, Federal processes, common sense or any semblance of critical thought. Perhaps in more familiar terms, there is zero evidence of any form of Situational Awareness being displayed by USAPA. The “big picture” is much larger and far more perilous than is being let on by its organizers.

Blind rage resolves nothing. Blind rage is empty. Blind rage kills rational thought and it will be Blind rage that ultimately buries US Airways. Moreover, Blind rage is the only TRUE component fueling and supporting USAPA. Any type of real substance eludes them.

As ALPA pilots, I’m confident that we all have a stake in this slow moving crime wave called USAPA. Therefore, my total support; both moral and financial, is firmly behind AWA/ALPA in their fight against Tyranny. An internal Tyranny wrapped in the Predatory cloak of a Fake Union. Best of Luck, fight the good fight and withhold no effort to keep the lid on Pandora’s Box. I doubt anyone, East or West, is prepared to live with the multitude of Management Demons will most certainly emerge from it should USAPA impose it’s will. Of course by then, the damage will be self- inflicted and far too late for either side to ever recover.

Hopefully common sense prevails.
xxx xxxxx
LAXFO
Alaska Airlines.

 

[metrolet]

O I see, so it was outside investment that put the two together. And since USAirways was in bankrupcy at the time, the funds were routed through AWA.

Sounds like no one saved anyone.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

O I see, so it was outside investment that put the two together. And since USAirways was in bankrupcy at the time, the funds were routed through AWA.

Sounds like no one saved anyone.

No Metro I saved you!!! The day I saved you my hiring pool was drained!! The day I saved you the Air Bus deliveries stopped!! The day I saved you all classes stopped and haven't started ON THE WEST since!!

Now before we rehash this whole ugly but true state of affairs lets just not go there. Read the transcripts and know that for a fact you were days not weeks not months but DAYS away from asking people if they wanted fries with that burger. Yeah bro because of me and 1800 of my bretheren you have a job. Throwing you a life line cost me plenty how do you plan to pay me back???

WD.

 

[weasel_lips]

Marty,

We save you from death and from yourselves and this is the thanks we get? You are a complete idiot and will soon be jobless as a result!

You east folk lost nothing as a result of OUR BUYING YOU, you had jobs, health ins, a renewed career and now you turn into invasion of the body snatchers. DOH are you fking kidding me??? How on Gods earth is that fair??? Let me guess because that's that way is was done 20yrs ago right??

Can't wait for the demise of this company so people like you will be unemployed!!!

Go day to you and give my best to James Garbett I hear he is an early entrant for company retirement! Care to tell us why???

WD.

You are a perfect example of why ALPO must go.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

. I voted in favor of ALPA today.

What are you going to do with the $200 that you did not have to send in for NOT voting for USAPA?

A vote for USAPA means $200 for now... and more later....


Check out the USAPA videos on youtube... East can't take the heat in the West...

 

[LearLove]

got the nmb envelope in the mail today. gonna mull it over before voting.

to me this vote is like the pres race - I don't like anyone involved but one thing I know is that something has to be changed.

undecided

my issue is this: i don't like ALPA but i fear a majority of the east thinks USAPA will overturn Nic somehow. If USAPA came out and said they would accept Nic or open some dialogue to modify it with west inorder to come to an agreement and move on then i'd be much happier with USAPA.