The logic of relative seniority

[SWA/FO]

I thought, he was talking to TY (not his real name)......our 9th round pick in the trannyDRAFT 2011.

 

[Lear70]

Ty's real name isn't Richard... MINE, however, is...

When this is all over, I'd love to see the TrannyDraft conversations, something tells me they'd be pretty hilarious. :beer:

 

[SWA/FO]

Lear70 - you a former freightDOG? CherryAir, Ameristar or Reliant?

 

[Ty Webb]

Your continuous copping out speaks volumes.

Well since the whole scenario was hypotherical I suppose I could add that the theoretical AAI/VA acquisition occurs two years from now after 8 profitable quarters from VA. Would you then believe that VA/AAI would be fair? 08VA in front of 93AAI, 07VA capt over every single AAI FO (since your preaching seat protection).

Sound fair TY?

This is just stupid.

I'll give you valid frame of reference, Hose. When we (AAI) made an offer for Midex, there was much discussion on the Line about how the integration would work (this is before we were ALPA). The most common discussions I heard had Midex getting relative seniority. Why? Because the airplanes and the flying and the pilots were all coming into the operation. There was no perceived harm in being at the same percentage on a blended list, and I don't know of anyone who thought our FO's were going to be displacing Midex MD80 Captains.

 

[Lear70]

Ayuh. Express One and Kalitta. Those were the days...

It's been an "interesting" career (Instructing, Charter, Fractional, Freight, Regional, Major, turboprops, jets, and lots of fun times and great coworkers I still hang out with to this day). They were all good places in one way or another, and I left on good terms from all my previous jobs, but I'm hoping the SWA uniform will be the last one I ever have to put on... I have enough previous life's wings, hats, and pictures on my office shelf!

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

This is just stupid.

I'll give you valid frame of reference, Hose. When we (AAI) made an offer for Midex, there was much discussion on the Line about how the integration would work (this is before we were ALPA). The most common discussions I heard had Midex getting relative seniority. Why? Because the airplanes and the flying and the pilots were all coming into the operation. There was no perceived harm in being at the same percentage on a blended list, and I don't know of anyone who thought our FO's were going to be displacing Midex MD80 Captains.

I would like to hear an opinion from an AAI FO on this matter. 180 degrees opposite from yours im guessing.

If your FOs had been with the company longer than the Midex Captains (not sure if this was the case), they had every right to expect displacement (and pay protection for the displaced).

If a 5 year captain keeps his seat in front of an 8 year F.O. that is an ABSOLUTE DISPLACEMENT.

 

[Dash Power]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be. I honestly would hope for the best but know my company sold my butt and threw my future up into the air.

How can anyone think that being junior to anyone with less longevity is fair. Seniority is about time in service. Period. Absolutely no entitlement other than what your seniority has to offer. Whether it is a captain seat or the bottom of the list.

I can understand some aspects of seat protections. I am certain any reasonable person can. But if anyone who has put in less time than me who is getting my vacation or line that I want in my base that I have been for 17 years, I will be pissed.

 

[MCDU]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be. I honestly would hope for the best but know my company sold my butt and threw my future up into the air.

How can anyone think that being junior to anyone with less longevity is fair. Seniority is about time in service. Period. Absolutely no entitlement other than what your seniority has to offer. Whether it is a captain seat or the bottom of the list.

I can understand some aspects of seat protections. I am certain any reasonable person can. But if anyone who has put in less time than me who is getting my vacation or line that I want in my base that I have been for 17 years, I will be pissed.

Good post. This is exactly how it should be done.

Ask any NWA, AAA pilot and they feel the same. The funny thing is that if it goes relative, the pilots with less time will get their DOH and the others get slotted in. It is a win win for the group with less years put in when relative is used. They still get DOH and get put ahead of pilots with more time invested. That is why one group will totally like that outcome. (Delta or AWA).

Putting workers with less time ahead is huge factor why we have all these discussions. Try using a relative method with some other work groups. They would not touch it, because they know how workers feel when they get put behind someone with less time.

We have AWA/AAA, CAL/United, Polar/Atlas and MEH/F9/RAH/Lynx all going no where. I guess we can add SWA/Airtran soon. All this because pilots abandoned the golden standard involved with Workgroups. DOH

M

 

[Ty Webb]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be.

It's pretty hard to scream when you find yourself at the same place on a blended list.

"My God! I went from 30.77% on the old SWA list to 30.77% on the blended list! Oh, the humanity!

 

[Dash Power]

It's pretty hard to scream when you find yourself at the same place on a blended list.

"My God! I went from 30.77% on the old SWA list to 30.77% on the blended list! Oh, the humanity!

And you would have been 44.99 percent on the old list. Which is a fair place for you to be because you worked less than the others before you.