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The latest on AA and APA contract negotiations, article

General Lee

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American Airlines: About Those Labor Negotiations?

By Ben Levisohn

A week ago, American Airlines (AAL) and the Allied Pilots Association said they would keep talking about a new contract that would include American and US Airways pilots. Today, Wolfe Research's Hunter Keay and team bring us up to date on those negotiations:


Mark Elias/Bloomberg News

We think American Airlines and APA (the union) are taking some time off from negotiations this week after extending a soft negotiating deadline last Friday. American Airlines management can send negotiations to binding arbitration whenever it wants but we think both American Airlines and APA view that as undesirable. Key issues remain open relating to work rules, but we believe profit sharing is off the table in either an arbitrated or negotiated outcome. Pilots are likely getting a raise of about 15% " the only issue is whether that raise is in January 2015 (negotiated outcome) or January 2016 (arbitration outcome)"

New labor deals are not in American Airlines' 2015 [cost per available seat mile, or] CASM ex-fuel guide of ~flat. We think most people know that. We believe American Airlines? reaches a deal with APA by mid-December and, if so, we think a realistic 2015 CASM ex-fuel number is +2% y/y. If not we would likely keep it closer to +0.5% y/y from the FA deal. But the pilot cost savings benefit would likely not be reflected in the stock given its temporary-ness and negative impact on pilot relations.

Labor relations seem to be the furthest thing from investors' minds today, however, as plunging oil prices send airline shares soaring. American Airlines has climbed 9% to $49.02 at 11:21 a.m., while Delta Air Lines has gained 6% to $46.89, United Continental has jumped 7.4% to $60.80 and Southwest Airlines has risen 6.9% to $41.99.




Bye Bye---General Lee
 

fr8doggie

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American Airlines management can send negotiations to binding arbitration whenever it wants to?

I must have missed that section of the RLA.
 

zasca

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Not section 6 negotiations. The pilots agreed to this framework for the combined JCBA. They already have a contract. This is period is purely for "fixing" stuff from the MTA. The company has the option to entertain economic improvements but doesn't have to.
 

fr8doggie

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OK then...
 

Carl S.

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We bleed no matter which we choose, just trying to bleed the least in this quasi Section 6 we are in.
 

Bringupthebird

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Welcome to the painted-in corner, courtesy of USAPA. What self-help provisions are there in such a quasi-section 6 and what compels management to accept any improvements to previous unilateral offers they have made?

USAPA sowed disunity and reaps the abandonment of the RLA. Had the pilots stood up to the leaders of USAPA and told them to shut down the civil war against their fellow pilots and begin to build a force to be reckoned with, they could have had real influence in crafting the merger. As it was the APA pilots chose to grab the merger life raft and USAPA didn't have the credibility to make its conditional support relevant.
 

ERfly

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Welcome to the painted-in corner, courtesy of USAPA. What self-help provisions are there in such a quasi-section 6 and what compels management to accept any improvements to previous unilateral offers they have made?

USAPA sowed disunity and reaps the abandonment of the RLA. Had the pilots stood up to the leaders of USAPA and told them to shut down the civil war against their fellow pilots and begin to build a force to be reckoned with, they could have had real influence in crafting the merger. As it was the APA pilots chose to grab the merger life raft and USAPA didn't have the credibility to make its conditional support relevant.


Didn't the almighty West pilots, the Warriors of the Integrity Watch, vote 98% to pass said MOU with the binding arbitration clause?
 

General Lee

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Didn't the almighty West pilots, the Warriors of the Integrity Watch, vote 98% to pass said MOU with the binding arbitration clause?

You mean to highlight the "ripeness" of the results of your discounting of "binding" arbitration? Probably. You forgot to add that part. Wouldn't West guys be financially harmed by being kept in their PHX hub, not "allowed" to leave to get upgrades going to junior people like third listers? You know what your group did was wrong. You do. And, everyone else does as well. Guilty as charged.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

DCAA320

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You mean to highlight the "ripeness" of the results of your discounting of "binding" arbitration? Probably. You forgot to add that part. Wouldn't West guys be financially harmed by being kept in their PHX hub, not "allowed" to leave to get upgrades going to junior people like third listers? You know what your group did was wrong. You do. And, everyone else does as well. Guilty as charged.


Bye Bye---Genital Lee


Yes genital, the west guys deserve to come east and be A330 captains. MORON
 

JetMonkey

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Yes genital, the west guys deserve to come east and be A330 captains. MORON

You mean the 330's that came AFTER the merger which was suppose to be split 50/50? Yes they do..
 

Groucho

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USAPA had nothing to do with the arbitration clause. That clause was in the Term Sheet, which was negotiated by APA with Parker and Kirby, before USAPA was even aware of the merger. It was an absolute core of the merger proposal from Doug and Scott, and APA had to sign off on the concept of a cost neutral contract backed up by arbitration, or they would not proceed with attempting the merger.

This was all going on in February of 2012, just three months after AA had filed Chapter 11. The actual merger announcement was April of 2012. The Term Sheet, as it was called then, was a done deal. The arbitration clause survived into the MOU and then the subsequent MTA.
 

Bringupthebird

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USAPA could have been able to alter the course of events had it chosen unity over greed. ER still doesn't understand why this robbed the LUS pilots of the NO vote option for all practical purposes. A unified LUS group was vital to the merger. What USAPA left us with was a punch line.
 

General Lee

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How's that working out?

I guess we'll see soon you complete jackhole. Yeah, "binding" arbitration doesn't count..... Fingers crossed!



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

DCAA320

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I guess we'll see soon you complete jackhole. Yeah, "binding" arbitration doesn't count..... Fingers crossed!



Bye Bye---Genital Lee

I didn't make the rules and I just follow the law. Those boys ought to stay in PHX til it closes.
 

General Lee

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I didn't make the rules and I just follow the law. Those boys ought to stay in PHX til it closes.

Follow the law, huh? Everyone signed on the bottom line, and when the Easties saw the result of the arbitration, there was no way they were going to go for a joint contract unless the Westies agreed to their demands. You know it's true, and so does everyone else. You guys are the laughing stock of this industry and an embarrassment. You'll always be asked by other crew members at AA where you came from, and each one will size you up right there and then, as a jackhole who was "following the.....uhhh...law??" Whatever dude....



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

DCAA320

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Follow the law, huh? Everyone signed on the bottom line, and when the Easties saw the result of the arbitration, there was no way they were going to go for a joint contract unless the Westies agreed to their demands. You know it's true, and so does everyone else. You guys are the laughing stock of this industry and an embarrassment. You'll always be asked by other crew members at AA where you came from, and each one will size you up right there and then, as a jackhole who was "following the.....uhhh...law??" Whatever dude....

Bye Bye---Genital Lee

You cannot possibly be this stupid, wait, yes you can.
 

General Lee

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You cannot possibly be this stupid, wait, yes you can.

"I'm just following the law......" Your comment was probably the most ignorant and funniest ones I've read all year. Thanks dumb azz!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

wms

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I can't believe a potentially good thread got hijacked into an east-west fight.
 

OState597

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When the arrogant pr!ck himself General Lee posts in a thread, it goes downhill instantly. Every airline has a bad apple, and SkyWest unfortunately has theirs.
 
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