The hiring window at Pinnacle is wide open.

[John_W_Thompson]

Hi folks - if you like Pinnacle get your stuff walked in now, as hiring is in full swing. This is NOT a rumor. I overheard conversation (clearly) today and they need people. Yesterday. Hard mins are ATPw, 1500TT and 300 ME off the street. As you probably know upgrade mins are 3500, reducable to 3000 with time at the company. Upgrade probably running at least a year to 18 months now if you have the time.

 

[Rhoid]

Do they hire stree captains if you have the time?

 

[CL600Pilot]

No. From what I understand they have in the past but they are not now. Many of us have the time and have standing bids in for CA.





CL

 

[Vik]

"this is NOT a rumor. I overheard conversation" [and clearly too!]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA .. Gotta love it.

 

[flagshipper]

The one street captain thing was a fluke. With about 1000 pilots on the seniority list now and 139 planes in the end I would only expect about 400 or so more pilots to get hired with a few handfuls more to make up for the attrition (8% maybe) and the 20% who don't make it through training. Of course as previously said that will take til OCT 2005 to get to staffing model ( a bad one at that). While the 10 extra planes came as a shock to me I suppose we will be getting more maybe because as LEAR70 said no one else has ramped up their training department to handle CRJ regardless of what XJ says. Get your stuff in as soon as possible that way you can get a buttload of furlough fodder under you. The weirdest thing has happened to FO seniority. Detroit is now the senior FO base with guys in my class from this past summer still doing reserve while in MEM reserve is a month or two and maybe a month in MSP. They are doing a lot of the MKE and IND flying using memphis crews so that has upped our lines. Rumors are floating around that the current staffing model is not working (no S#$%) so they might breakdown and have 5 crews a plane because 44 people( mostly captains) are projected to time out sometime in DEC and some already have. Planning is freaking out. It is an ok place to be especially living in domicile. good luck

 

[another cfii]

Planning is freaked out is sooo true. Though the Dec line isn't that half bad for our lowly FO (even few junior FO could hold 14 days off), i think things will stabilize a bit after the holiday. I will be very interested to see how the new CA bid comes out by early next year.

 

[Lear70]

Final Vacancy 04-10 is out and the results are nothing short of mind-blowing if looked at with future upgrades in mind...

The most junior upgrade went to seniority #785, an f/o hired in May of 2004, yes that's a 7 month upgrade time. He's not alone either, several other 700- seniority guys are in those secondaries so it's moving downward again at a faster pace than previously thought.

Now here's the REALLY interesting part: Alternates went all the way down to 990. No, I'm not kidding. 12 Alternates were listed and by Alternate #3 we were at Seniority # 864. By #8 we were at #880. By #12 we were at #990 out of 1,000 or so pilots. WTF, OVER?

For the uninitiated, not only are "Alternates" the guys who will fill in if a primary or secondary candidate bails for some reason (personal, family, etc), but it's also a good indicator of where the next vacancy will go. With the addition of more planes, I expect the vacancies will continue at a pace of one per month with 20-30 Capt slots, so where the h*ll are the upgrades going to come from?

It's going to be interesting when the Final Vacancies 05-01 and 05-02 come back...

 

[flagshipper]

Cool. Another 400 hours and I can get a captain spot. But then I would have to commute. Screw that. And in reference to the good FO lines since I was willing to work Christmas I got a 94 hour line with 15 days off because they can't use me on interface. I am not complaing.

 

[another cfii]

I doubt every able FO in the 400 and 500 range is gonna wait forever. Everybody that does that is just either: 1) Doesn't like to fly from the left seat, or 2) playing russian roulette till upgrade stops.

I would of course jump at my chance of upgrade as soon as I can hold a spot in my own base.

 

[flagshipper]

I have to wait 7 months to turn 23 anyway, but I say I wouldn't commute to get a captain spot but I bet the money would fool me into it.The FO job is much less responsibility than the CA spot and I don't want to start anything but it is very easy to get lulled into a low responsibility complacency in the right seat. In the meantime I am moving up about 4 spots a month on the MEM FO list out of 100 or so lines. Who knows what will happen in the aviaiton industry? I will burn that bridge when I get there


I was sorta wondering where all the jets are going since the hubs are gettting close to maxed out but i forgot about IND which by the way needs to be made into a base along with MKE




Press Release Source: Northwest Airlines


Northwest to Continue Indianapolis Schedule Buildup With New Nonstops to Dallas/Ft. Worth, Kansas City, Mo., Sarasota and West Palm Beach, Fla.
Wednesday December 1, 3:32 pm ET
Seven More Flights Start in February; Northwest Will Be Indianapolis' Largest Airline


INDIANAPOLIS, Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Northwest Airlines (Nasdaq: NWAC - News) today announced the fourth expansion of its Indianapolis flight schedule in the last five months, unveiling plans to begin new daily nonstop service to Dallas/Ft. Worth and Kansas City, Mo., as well as seasonal weekend service to Sarasota and West Palm Beach, Fla.
When the new flights begin in February 2005, Northwest's Indianapolis schedule will grow to up to 51 flights a day with service to up to 20 destinations, an increase in departures from its October 2004 schedule of nearly 200 percent. With the addition of service to Dallas/Ft. Worth, Kansas City, Sarasota and West Palm Beach, Northwest will offer more departures than any other carrier and become Indianapolis' largest airline.

Today, Northwest provides more jet flights from Indianapolis than any other airline, offering 36 all-jet departures to 14 nonstop destinations. When the airline's Indianapolis operation increases to up to 38 flights to 15 destinations on Dec. 15, Northwest will serve more cities nonstop from Indianapolis than any other carrier.

"Northwest provides Indianapolis-area travelers with an all-jet schedule, nonstop service to top business and leisure destinations, competitive fares, a top-rated frequent flyer program, a network of alliances and global access through its SkyTeam alliance partners that no other airline can match," said Fay Beauchine, vice president of sales and customer care. "The schedule expansion we are announcing today, as well as the staff increases and facility investments we have made in our growing Indianapolis operation, further demonstrates our strong commitment to providing convenient and reliable service to travelers in Indiana."

Northwest will add its 17th and 18th nonstop destinations from Indianapolis with three flights to Dallas/Ft. Worth and two flights to Kansas City starting Feb. 16, 2005. The majority of the new flights will operate daily, and the remainder will operate six days per week.

Northwest will add its 19th and 20th nonstop destinations from Indianapolis with seasonal weekend service to Sarasota and West Palm Beach from Feb. 19 through May 1, 2005. Northwest will offer Indianapolis-Sarasota and Sarasota-Indianapolis on Saturdays. Northwest will fly Indianapolis-West Palm Beach on Saturdays and offer return flights on Sundays.

All of the new flights will be offered through its Northwest Airlink partner, Pinnacle Airlines, with 44 or 50-seat Canadair Regional Jets (CRJs).

NORTHWEST PROVIDES JET SERVICE TO TOP DESTINATIONS

From Indianapolis, Northwest currently offers nonstop service to 14 top business and leisure destinations including:

-- Boston (three flights)
-- Detroit (seven flights)
-- Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. (Saturday service, daily flights begin Dec. 15)
-- Ft. Myers, Fla. (one flight, second flight begins Feb. 16, 2005)
-- Hartford, Conn. (two flights)
-- Las Vegas (one flight, second flight begins Feb. 16, 2005)
-- Los Angeles (one flight)
-- Memphis, Tenn. (three flights)
-- Minneapolis/St. Paul (six flights)
-- New York (three flights)
-- Orlando, Fla. (one flight year-round, second seasonal flight begins
Dec. 15)
-- Philadelphia (two flights, third flight begins Jan. 4, 2005)
-- Raleigh/Durham, N.C. (two flights)
-- Washington (three flights)


Northwest's flights to Hartford and Raleigh/Durham are the only nonstops offered to those cities from Indianapolis.

As previously announced, on Dec. 15, 2004, Northwest will add nonstop service to:

-- Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. (Saturday only service becomes one daily flight)
-- Tampa, Fla. (one flight, second seasonal flight begins Feb. 16, 2005)

On Feb. 16, 2005, Northwest will add nonstop service to:

-- Dallas/Ft. Worth (three flights)
-- Kansas City (two flights)
-- Phoenix (one flight, seasonal)


From Feb. 19 through May 1, 2005, Northwest will offer new weekend nonstop service to:

-- Sarasota (one flight on Saturdays)
-- West Palm Beach (one flight to West Palm Beach on Saturdays, return
flight on Sundays)

 

[Crizz]

How are they able to keep mins at 1500/300 when all other regionals are taking people as low as 600/100? Are there that many people flowing from the GIA bung?

 

[flagshipper]

How are they able to keep mins at 1500/300 when all other regionals are taking people as low as 600/100? Are there that many people flowing from the GIA bung?

YES!!!!

 

[ifly4food]

You forgot to mention that new hires don't get paid while in training, and have to spring for their own hotel. Ouch.

 

[DTWFO]

I have to wait 7 months to turn 23 anyway, but I say I wouldn't commute to get a captain spot but I bet the money would fool me into it.The FO job is much less responsibility than the CA spot and I don't want to start anything but it is very easy to get lulled into a low responsibility complacency in the right seat. In the meantime I am moving up about 4 spots a month on the MEM FO list out of 100 or so lines. Who knows what will happen in the aviaiton industry? I will burn that bridge when I get there

While I agree with you about seniority here at Pinnacle, I have to disagree as far as the responsibility goes. As much as people say that the PIC is the end all when the s... hits the fan, let me tell you.....that is not true. Especially at Pinnacle. The SIC will be held just as responsible as the PIC for ANYTHING that happens. I'm speaking from experience. Please double check whatever your captain does especially when it comes to paperwork (alternates, 3585, airworthiness, documents, fuel req, MEL's, preflights, rest req). I don't mean to be a downer because we have a lot of great captains here, but our pilots are pushed to the max every day and that means the FO needs to be at the top of his/her game too. The FAA doesn't care that you make less than half the money of the PIC, they will violate you in a second. Just a word of caution for my Pinnacle brothers/Sisters.

And as far as the upgrade things goes. I read somewhere about a rumor of raising the time required to 5000 hours TT. I think that is just insane! They would rather put a pilot with 3500 hours of piston time into the left seat of a plane they have never flown than an FO with 2500 TT of which 1000 hours has been in that type. Makes no sense to me at all. I hope that 5000 thing is just a rumor.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Info

So what is the source of this 5000 hr thing. This would force a bunch of St Capt hiring.

 

[flagshipper]

It is a dumb rumor which is an offspring of the FLG 3701 accident which is sorta funny considering the captain had over 6700 hours and i would imagine well over a 1000 in type (that is just an estimate). TM has said in OPS (I overheard it clearly Hahah) that he hates having to do the street capt thing. Just recently they made all the FOs fill out new info sheets with current times and they even told us to put down what we expect to have at the end of the year. They are trying to evaluate the strength of the FO flight times. We will see. I think they will go back to the old way of giving ca awards which allowed the pilot to anticipate 50 hours a month. So one could get an award today with 2800 hours and when class came around in March he would have no problem getting the 3000. According to the old guys this used to work just fine.

 

[Lear70]

I think they will go back to the old way of giving ca awards which allowed the pilot to anticipate 50 hours a month. So one could get an award today with 2800 hours and when class came around in March he would have no problem getting the 3000. According to the old guys this used to work just fine.

Do you have any basis for this opinion (talked to TM or MG or someone)? or is it a belief based on common sense, because we all know how much common sense gets applied here at PCL...

And I agree with DTWFO, please please PLEASE double-check what the Captains are doing. On day 4 after 5 legs, 28 hours about to reach 29:35 in 4 days after getting 5 1/2 hours of sleep on 8 hours of reduced rest, we are just NOT as sharp as we would be on day one leg one. THAT'S why there are two of us up there, we watch each other's back and catch the "little stuff" (meaning the thousand little details that together ensure legality and safety) that the other person misses. Been there, done that, on BOTH sides of the equation (the guy who catches what the other guy missed AND the guy who misses something and the other guy catches it).

Fly safe...

 

[John_W_Thompson]

That is VERY interesting. I wish I could get some of my furloughed buddies to come over but they're gun shy about the no pay during training.

 

[flagshipper]

Do you have any basis for this opinion (talked to TM or MG or someone)? or is it a belief based on common sense, because we all know how much common sense gets applied here at PCL...

And I agree with DTWFO, please please PLEASE double-check what the Captains are doing. On day 4 after 5 legs, 28 hours about to reach 29:35 in 4 days after getting 5 1/2 hours of sleep on 8 hours of reduced rest, we are just NOT as sharp as we would be on day one leg one. THAT'S why there are two of us up there, we watch each other's back and catch the "little stuff" (meaning the thousand little details that together ensure legality and safety) that the other person misses. Been there, done that, on BOTH sides of the equation (the guy who catches what the other guy missed AND the guy who misses something and the other guy catches it).

Fly safe...

I was told by KH when I filled out my form to put down the month I would have the insurance mins assuming a min guarantee line and if I am on reserve to count 50 hours a month then right down that month. KH told me this is to better evaluate the need for future street captains and just how many low time guys we have around.

Let me just say to clear it up. Flying the airplane is no different for a CA or FO. But the legality issues are. I come from the 135 single pilot environment and I will be the first to admit I am a control freak. I watch all my captains very closely especially since I have had 5 high mins capts in the past month. I have caught things such as a lack of alt listed when needed. I really don't trust dispatch esepcially when I see certain names on the release. We all get tired and if we do the old you get my back I get yours everything works out just fine. I really enjoy the captains I fly with and I think they enjoy flying with me because they now I am double checking things and checking fuel over waypoints which suprisingly many don't. They just look at their FOA and are content with that. It is a team effort. (oops captain engage yd2 or release the brake captain we are captured and cleared to push)

 

[beernuts]

Would Pinnacle be a better choice than Mesaba right now? I see both were offered a chance to bid work for United. I would like a reasonable shot at upgrade but biggest issues are pay, location of base, and time until holding line. Also any other good companies to check out?

 

[Lou3]

I guess this is true, as I got an email invitation for an interview for this week after sending in my resume 6 days ago! Wow, was that quick.

 

[Dodge]

Mesaba requires 5000 hours to be an Avro Captain. However, most all of our pilots have over 4000 so that isn't much of a problem. I doubt Mesaba will ever fly for United. Carl and Doug will have to approve that one.

 

[movingviolation]

I just got an Email from Pinnacle today as well, was sititng in the FBO waiting for my freight to arrive.... fun stuff

 

[dondk]

Just recently 65 GIA folks were hired, that is the largest number since we started that whole trend.

Note.. those GIA folk.. can't upgrade.. why? most don't have the PIC min's for the ATP.. sooo.. they must be bypassed and that is one of the reason's we are going real deep into the pilot pool.

I agree with Lear70, the alternates will probably be the next secondary's, maybe a few primary's. Though, the MEM and MSP bases are not as flush with GIA peep's like DTW is. That is the main reason for DTW going real senior for FO's.. We don't have that many left who can upgrade.

Projecting the times.. well then I'd guess they'd have to rehire the upgrade who padded his book then.. I don't see projecting times coming back, and back 2 years ago.. it worked, but not that well, we had guy's "over project" and that caused some firing's and headaches.

If they head back towards the 4.8-5 pilots per aircraft (as it was 2 years ago) then we should be in a world of hurt. They are cancelling flights daily because of 30/7 issue's and other FAR limiting issue's.. Get some decent weather and watch us grind to a halt.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Mesaba requires 5000 hours to be an Avro Captain. However, most all of our pilots have over 4000 so that isn't much of a problem. I doubt Mesaba will ever fly for United. Carl and Doug will have to approve that one.

Check your contract. Under the new contract, there are no minimums other than 1 year at the company and/or 1000 hours at the company, and even those are reducible if no one can hold it.

But the minimums for either ship are long gone...

 

[blade230]

Just recently 65 GIA folks were hired, that is the largest number since we started that whole trend.

Note.. those GIA folk.. can't upgrade.. why? most don't have the PIC min's for the ATP.. sooo.. they must be bypassed and that is one of the reason's we are going real deep into the pilot pool.


That is incorrect.

Per the FAR requirements; 250 hrs. of flight time as PIC of an airplane, or as SIC performing the duties and functions of a PIC under the supervision of a PIC, or by a combination of the two. This requiment must include;
a) 100 hrs. of cross country time
b) 25 hrs. of night flight time.

500 hour guys/gals have been hired at just about every single regional at some point. How do you think they upgraded? The GIA guys ARE upgrading, as 3 of them are in the current upgrade class now. The GIA folks are only held back by total time, or lack there of.

 

[dondk]

Thanks for the correction

Blade230,

Thanks for the correction, I stand corrected. I am repeating the statements made to me by a few APD's. The GIA peeps in the upgrade process though, are not the "lowest" time GIA peep's we have hired. Those in the process now came over with 1K or better TT. I can't speak for how the company will interpet the FAR's. If you get DW, it can go either way or some other way none of have thought of.

I know from my MESA day's, the 250hr San Juan grads did upgrade in all forms of equipment. Why not at PNCL?

thanks again

 

[keatts]

is there a dedicated forum for pinnacle?

 

[Lear70]

Oh Gawd... why the H*LL would you want something like that?

In all seriousness, yes there is; it's for PCL pilots only and it's password protected (serious mode off) behind a double-secret-probation MI6 firewall that will automatically send out the DOOMSDAY VIRUS to anyone who tries to hack in and make your computer attach a line at the bottom of every resume you email saying "This person is a moron - do not hire".

There are enough union and non-union volunteers on this board who work for us that can answer just about anything you want, so just ask way.

7 more days to find out just how many street captains we're going to have to hire for Vacancy 04-11...