the gojet/TSA history lesson

[waka]

TSA will have to do what ever it can to clean up the mess of 2005 and in all probability they will have to give up more than they'll receive. I feel for the pilots now that have to deal with the disasterous negotiations in 05 that sealed the fate of TSA. However this whole deal could have been prevented in 2005. The biggest irony about this is not the pay or the contract, because the fact of the matter is Gojet now is union and has an industry standard contract as well as 66 seat pay. The irony is that gojet single list was voted down because it would hurt job security for the pilots. Look at where we are now in 09, that's what the current TSA is begging of Hulas, a single list which they could have had in 05. So sad. Whatever, what's done is done no need to harp on the past. Gojet is a new company with pilots that have no connection at all with 2005 and are union and Alpa/Teamster supporters.

Very well said!

(yes, I repeated this so it would be on the same page as Shifty's post)

 

[laserman2431]

My advise is this: Keep being mad about the past if you want to but separate those feelings as you prepare for the future.

Look at the title of this thread "the gojet/TSA history lesson." Now ask yourself, do you want to writing "the gojet/TSA future lesson?" I think you should be writing the "TSA future success plan." You should separate your anger over past insults and injuries from your actions to develop a better future. If, of course, your goal is to develop a better future.

_______________________________

Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it.

 

[laserman2431]

Very well said!

(yes, I repeated this so it would be on the same page as Shifty's post)

Thanks, I hate it when the response is on a different page even though the quoted comment is right above. I appreciate your attention to detail.

 

[taylor01]

Everyone needs to leave that goat-********************er uncle hulie and burn the ********************hole down.

Isnt the definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting different results? While I, as a former TSAer, would love for TSA to be a good place to be, we all know that Uncle hulie will keep you all down, as low as a goat turd, and do everything to delay paying you a cent over the contract that was negotiated years ago. If ANYONE thinks that Uncle Hulie will wake up, smell the goat turd, and start paying people what they are worth - well, isnt that insanity?

You cant run an airline without pilots. If the ********************hole is that bad (and from what I hear, nothing has changed there in decades); then just leave. Drop a deuce on Uncle's desk, tell him where to go screw a goat, and just leave.

When I was at TSA (and yes, GJ, in dispatch), I hated it there - the management on both sides (the same person - just with different ID cards), was a miserable prick. I left that cesspool in St Louis, and have never looked back.

When you leave TSA/GJS, you will feel better for doing so...

I left in May 2005, best day of my life.

 

[flyboyzii]

You gojet pilots need to make this right. It is very clear that you enabled and assisted management. You undermined the TSA negotiations.

WE need to make it right?? Ha!! Your pilotgroup effed up and now you want US to come to the rescue?? Good luck with that. ALPO, YOUR pilot group and Dario "enabled" this...end of story

 

[laserman2431]

WE need to make it right?? Ha!! Your pilotgroup effed up and now you want US to come to the rescue?? Good luck with that. ALPO, YOUR pilot group and Dario "enabled" this...end of story

I'm not sure why the two have to be connected? Why should TSA's fate depend on what happens at GoJet?

 

[Dornier 335]

If, of course, your goal is to develop a better future.

How can you develop a better future if you have the same a$$holes in management that are absolutely unscrupulous and are unwilling to change their attitude?

Shifty, indeed very well said!

 

[laserman2431]

How can you develop a better future if you have the same a$$holes in management that are absolutely unscrupulous and are unwilling to change their attitude?

Shifty, indeed very well said!

Dornier. I hate to break this to you, but, if you are expecting management to make things better, you are going to be disappointed where ever you go to work. That's not what management is about. It's pretty much the same wherever you go. Yes, you can argue that the company will to better if the employees are happy, but don't expect management to be good to you because they have scruples. They aren't all bad people. It's just that they have different goals from you. Their goal is to squeeze all the money they can out of the operation. In these very competitive times, they have to squeeze every stone they can.

If you want to concentrate on making things better for the pilot group, you should talk to the pilot group. Your management won't do it for you. GoJet pilots won't fix your problems. The NMB isn't there to help you. President Obama isn't going to make it better. Who does that leave? You and your brothers and sisters. You all really need to stop doing two things:

1. Blaming everyone else for your problems.
2. Expecting everyone else to fix your problems.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but that is reality.

 

[Dornier 335]

Dude, you make me laugh.... and that @ 4:40 am. Lowering us to sub-standard terms & condidtions isn't gonna make things better. It has to do with the fact about drawing a line and not being exploited. I think I am pretty much in touch with reality.

 

[flyboyzii]

"Dude"

 

[Hamburger]

Nobody cares.

Wrong.

 

[CX880]

You gojet pilots need to make this right. It is very clear that you enabled and assisted management. You undermined the TSA negotiations.

You need to look through the BS and realize that no one is out there to get you, except yourselves. Let's not BS, we all know that management sees us a liability and we see the flying as a means to an end. The moment when you get into what you think you deserve and try to change the owners business practices is when you get in trouble. Hulas didn't owe you anything in 05 especially a big shot contract just because he got a few more crappy RJs. I don't know the exact reason of the vote down in 05 but now in 09 we can safely say that it was a very big mistake because it certainly didn't bring job security. Secure the flying first because then you have something to work of off. Now I ALPO will do what it can and make it seem like a cause, I realize that they will never admit to the mistake because there is principle. But there's principle and there is stupidity. Mesa pilots realised that don't know why TSA didn't. Good luck though.

 

[laserman2431]

Dude, you make me laugh.... and that @ 4:40 am. Lowering us to sub-standard terms & condidtions isn't gonna make things better. It has to do with the fact about drawing a line and not being exploited. I think I am pretty much in touch with reality.

Dornier. I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Can you provide a little more explanation? Who do you think lowered you to sub-standard terms & conditions?

 

[Dornier 335]

Let's put some more fuel into the fire

from the Eagle MEC (taken from another bulletin board):

Fellow Furloughed American Eagle Pilots,

It’s in a pilot’s nature to chase flying jobs in pursuit of the perfect job. In fact, our industry model is based on pilots’ moving from carrier to carrier seeking jobs closer to where they live and bigger paychecks.
Traditionally, pilots chased lower-paying jobs from flight instructing to cargo and corporate and then on to regional airlines as they sought better pay and larger airplanes. A job at a major airline was the pinnacle
of many pilots’ careers, with the pay and benefits they had sought for years.
Unfortunately, airline pilot jobs are also, more often than not, subject to the cyclical nature of the airline business and poor management planning. Unlike most careers, moving backward in status and pay is the
unhappy result, or sometimes even the loss of pilot employment through furlough.

Some airline managers have recognized this cycle and have tried to capitalize on it by building a business model around it. One such airline is GoJet Airlines, an alter-ego carrier to Trans States Airlines, whose pilots are represented by ALPA.

GoJet capitalized on pilots’ natural desire to fly larger airplanes by making itself the ultimate “steppingstone” airline: a short-term job that promised fast upgrades while piloting the latest equipment for sub-par pay and work rules. This business model, on the other hand, does not account for pilots who don’t use this job as a stepping-stone.

GoJet was formed as a work-around to the APA’s scope language that revented Trans States Airlines from flying larger aircraft for other code-share partners while they were performing flying under contract as American Connection. Simultaneously, but not coincidentally, the Trans States MEC was negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft, but those negotiations fizzled as management found a way to whipsaw the pilots and force them to accept substandard pay and working conditions.

GoJet was formed by four Trans States managers who became the initial cadre of pilots. To deflect attention from the substandard working conditions and to attract pilots, these managers eventually petitioned the National Mediation Board and, with the assistance of Trans States management, voted for Teamsters Local 618 to represent them.

What Is Teamsters Local 618?

According to its website, Teamsters Local 618 represents freight carriers, auto dealerships, tank haulers, rent-a-car services, Part Houses, Dial Corporation, parking garages, towing companies, service stations,
chemical companies, tire and rubber industries, flight attendants, and, finally, airline pilots. With 1.4 million members, the 150 GoJet pilots make up less than 1 percent of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters’ constituency. Local 618 airline experience consists solely of their representation of the Trans States flight attendants.

Why would GoJet management desire pilot representation by Local 618 instead of the more experienced and stronger Local 747—the Teamsters local airline council that represents Great Lakes, Cape Air, North American, Gulfstream, Omni, and Republic? Current and former GoJet pilots advise that Local 618 appears too closely connected with TSA management. We seriously question whether there will be very meaningful representation from IBT 618. Yet moving to Local 747 is no longer a clear option for GoJet pilots, since Local 747 has been placed into trusteeship for allegations of officer impropriety and faces the threat of decertification from more than one member employee group.

Life at GoJet

GoJet pilots have characterized life at GoJet as harsh. According to these pilots, much power has been given to check airmen, who obviously have great influence over a pilot’s current and future career.
Additionally, GoJet pilots tell us that many pilots end up with FAA Letters of Investigation (LOIs). We encourage you to ask current and former GoJet pilots why they received these LOIs and whether it was connected in some way to working conditions at GoJet. We encourage you to ask them why pilots have been discharged at GoJet and whether those pilots stood up to or irritated management. It appears that many or most GoJet pilots keep their heads down and hope they get an offer of outside employment while they still have a clean record.

What does this mean to you?
The pilots at Trans States have tried for years to recapture the flying being done by GoJet and to establish pay and working conditions that are on par with their peers. They also need to be assured of future job security as management has moved most of the growth opportunities to GoJet.
As long as pilots continue to chase after sub-par working conditions at airlines like GoJet, it will be more challenging for pilots at other airlines such as Trans States or American Eagle to get the type of contract
that makes flying for a regional airline a meaningful career position, not just a short-term stepping-stone.
The pilots of Trans States desire to achieve job security protections for themselves while addressing the GoJet issue fairly and equitably for all, as this is in the best interest of not only the TSA pilots but the airline industry at large. It takes the support of all ALPA pilots, not just the few.

Despite the fact that you have been furloughed and are looking for other opportunities, the Trans States and American Eagle MECs request that you take the time to make an informed decision prior to applying to GoJet Airlines.

 

[Raskal]

Despite the fact that you have been furloughed and are looking for other opportunities, the Trans States and American Eagle MECs request that you take the time to make an informed decision prior to applying to GoJet Airlines.

Ya know, I don't have a dog in this fight but I've got to say, coming from the union that is a pretty ballsy and arrogant thing to say to a furloughed pilot. Obviously written by a person who is either senior enough to be out of reach from normal furlough or an insensitive youngster who is of means/lives with the parents.

I know what I would respond with if a union used my dues to send me that letter.

 

[superatr]

Ya know, I don't have a dog in this fight but I've got to say, coming from the union that is a pretty ballsy and arrogant thing to say to a furloughed pilot. Obviously written by a person who is either senior enough to be out of reach from normal furlough or an insensitive youngster who is of means/lives with the parents.

I know what I would respond with if a union used my dues to send me that letter.

Well, since it comes from the Membership/Furough Committee Chairman, I guess you are the arrogant one.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

All I can say about this entire thread (and the point I hope every GoJet pilot takes to heart) is that I hope I end up on a hiring board at a Major someday. Here's a little sample of how the interview will go with an ex GoJetter...

Me: Hey, how are you today? Thanks for taking the time to come interview with us. Let's start with a little about you. Who have you been flying for most recently?

Interviewee: I've been with GoJet for the last (however many) years.

Me: Thanks for stopping by, we'll be in touch... Next...

 

[Raskal]

Well, since it comes from the Membership/Furough Committee Chairman, I guess you are the arrogant one.

Maybe I am.

 

[flyboyzii]

All I can say about this entire thread (and the point I hope every GoJet pilot takes to heart) is that I hope I end up on a hiring board at a Major someday. Here's a little sample of how the interview will go with an ex GoJetter...

Me: Hey, how are you today? Thanks for taking the time to come interview with us. Let's start with a little about you. Who have you been flying for most recently?

Interviewee: I've been with GoJet for the last (however many) years.

Me: Thanks for stopping by, we'll be in touch... Next...

Obviously, with your demeanor that will never happen.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Obviously, with your demeanor that will never happen.

The beauty of it is you may be right, I'm probably not cut out to be an interviewer, I'd rather be flying any day. I will guarantee you this, while it may not be me, there will be others with my view towards GoJets who WILL be interviewers, and you know what they say about Karma...

That's one thing I've learned over the course of my life. When people screw others to get ahead, it may not catch up with them today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually it will catch up to you. GoJetters are definitely screwing the TSA group and it will come back around... Bank on it.