The FLOPS axe is falling

[RawData]

We are the proverbial "ship without a rudder".

 

[vindiesel]

good luck guys, I wish everyone the best at flops, I count many of you as good friends and hate to see what has happened in the last years. I felt like I had to leave when all I could think about was light captains pay at year 5 and never actually upgrading. I hear about the little perks going away like most of the travel policy and think this has to be designed to reduce the workforce, u quit so they dont have to fire u and pay for it. The flex schedule and per diem/ buy your lunch scheme is going to be interesting. love to hear about the Blackberry code for lunch delay this summer!

 

[WrknStff]

The most telling thing I've heard about this on the road yet is hearing former TA guys moaning about how much they miss Ricci.

 

[minimums]

truth

The most telling thing I've heard about this on the road yet is hearing former TA guys moaning about how much they miss Ricci.

Many people hated Ricci for the seniority list revisions, etc., but one thing is for sure, he would have never cut the QOL things that M.S. is cutting today. Ricci was a pilot himself and at least understood our point of view.

If you want to air out your concerns, see J.S. in Room "N=Nancy 381".

That should say it all.

 

[dime line]

do you really think J.S.(Indirect Chief Pilot) wants to hear our concerns?

 

[gunfyter]

Conspiracy Theory

This is all to wear you guys down such that when Options is merged with NJA ... you guys will actually think its a good thing. They pushing you toward a Union so that when the merger comes you don't get stapled to the bottom. Getting rid of your fly from home ... well because NJA does not have fly from home.

And Raytheon cuts a deal to send 50 Horizons to NJA.

Just kidding ... Even I don't believe it ...

 

[longrangekiller]

Several Flight Option Pilots have posted emotional letters on the FO Pilots web site. It is sad. It is sad that grown men, educated men, could not see that the train was on the tracks and gaining speed. The plight of other pilots has been overlooked until now. Other pilots have lost tier three already. But that was no big deal since it was only one guy here and there.

It is sad that these men still think that they can do something to derail the train. Gentlemen, the change in pilot life style that you are experiencing have been in the works for the past two years. No amount of impassioned letters will cause the leadership to change course. The changes to open domicile; loss of tier threes with loss of tier two waiting in the wings were a primary focus two years ago when Ricci was ushered out. Living where you want to live and traveling at company expense to work is going to go away eventually.

Remember, open domicile is unique to fractional aviation. Until RTA came along with the open domicile policy, pilots always went the job. The job did not come to them. RTA is gone and now with the NJA scheme of Regional Collection Airports and the demise of tier three airports at FO we see company management attempting to correct the anomaly of open domicile. Somewhere down the road, all fractional pilots can expect to shift to living where the company is head quartered or at one of very few crew base cities. It will not matter if the union fights it. Eventually, and painfully for the pilots, the company will win and you will move or quit. That you would rather live somewhere else is not a company concern. The prime objective of any company is to make a profit and provide a return to the investors.

 

[Live4flyng]

Several Flight Option Pilots have posted emotional letters on the FO Pilots web site. It is sad. It is sad that grown men, educated men, could not see that the train was on the tracks and gaining speed. The plight of other pilots has been overlooked until now. Other pilots have lost tier three already. But that was no big deal since it was only one guy here and there.

It is sad that these men still think that they can do something to derail the train. Gentlemen, the change in pilot life style that you are experiencing have been in the works for the past two years. No amount of impassioned letters will cause the leadership to change course. The changes to open domicile; loss of tier threes with loss of tier two waiting in the wings were a primary focus two years ago when Ricci was ushered out. Living where you want to live and traveling at company expense to work is going to go away eventually.

Remember, open domicile is unique to fractional aviation. Until RTA came along with the open domicile policy, pilots always went the job. The job did not come to them. RTA is gone and now with the NJA scheme of Regional Collection Airports and the demise of tier three airports at FO we see company management attempting to correct the anomaly of open domicile. Somewhere down the road, all fractional pilots can expect to shift to living where the company is head quartered or at one of very few crew base cities. It will not matter if the union fights it. Eventually, and painfully for the pilots, the company will win and you will move or quit. That you would rather live somewhere else is not a company concern. The prime objective of any company is to make a profit and provide a return to the investors.

Nice sermon dude, but you are a little off with the last paragraph. If all the pilots at NJA had to live at the company headquarters, the operation would come to a halt. You can't have 2100 NJA pilots, 250 NJI pilots, and who knows how many EJM pilots starting and ending their tours in CMH. There isn't enough airline service or ramp space for all the jets. It is a benefit to the company to have crew bases around the country, not the pilots. In case you didn't realize it, the T/A that was voted down by NJA did in fact open more bases than we have no, it was just too restrictive to vote yes. You will see more places for NJA pilots to fly from when a contract is completed or you will see this place shut down.

 

[inverted1]

Long Range is right... I mean out of domocile is unigue to fractional airlines, that is why a lot of cargo and charter ops (Omni, Polar, Gemini, etc offer it?). And I suppose I shouldn't even try to rectify the Domocile situation and just sit on my hands as range has talking smack on some stupid message board. Fact is I do have a family to feed and the thought of moving them 8 hours away so that I can make low 30's is hideous. Don't have daddy to support me as others do! If it means kissing some company's a$$ to tread water till August then so be it.

Since we are talking the innevitable, what are you going to do in September when FLOPS folds up like a cheap suitcase? Multi Million in losses last year, The same the year before, how long do you think ol' mother raytheon is going to go before they let go of the rope? And you think I am crazy... Attrition alone will smoke this company by the end of summer...smell the smoke, there is a fire burning.

Good Luck

 

[longrangekiller]

Live4flyng; NJA got along just fine before gateways and will get along just after gateways are a fond memory.

 

[minimums]

The prime objective of any company is to make a profit and provide a return to the investors.

Kinda hard to do when your spending 10+ million on charter in the first 3 months of the year, losing pilots at a exponential rate, parking uncrewed airplanes and ticking off so many owners that they quit.

 

[longrangekiller]

Minimums: You cracked the code. The company is closing down slowly and it is by design.

 

[Live4flyng]

Live4flyng; NJA got along just fine before gateways and will get along just after gateways are a fond memory.

Well.....EJA was having a tough time attracting pilots back then, so they expanded the gateway system. You can't compare the fractionals to a freight company, we don't start or end the flights at the same places every night. Same thing goes for an airline, we don't have hubs and routes (scheduled). So it is a benefit for the company to have expanded gateways, makes them more efficient.

 

[longrangekiller]

And so, the idea for RAC's at NJA. NJA management knows exactly what you are talking about and will eventually get their way. The RAC's discussed in the most recently defeated TA may not be the RAC's that eventually come to be, but NJA will have a series of RAC's and the Gateways will eventually go away.

 

[Live4flyng]

I'll take a RAC instead of a gateway anyday. RCAs are another deal though. Gateways go away, so do pilots. I don't think you really know what you are talking about LongRange.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Live4flyng, How is a RAC system better than a Gateway system?

 

[Live4flyng]

Depends on your definition of a RAC. Or is it a Rack? I really don't know what Long Range was talking about, he keeps referring to a RAC. I would like to know more about this new RAC concept. An RCA is a different deal though. Like I said, I'll take a RAC over a gateway anyday.

 

[J3 Guy]

Maybe hes thinking of Pamela Anderson interms of a RACK.


J3

 

[guido411]

J3,

I think it's about time somebody said what we've all been thinking. You, sir, are a moron. Nobody appreciates your notions of scabbery at NJA, your pose of being a person in the know of ANY fractional, or your unimportant and unfunny remarks on life the universe and everything. Whether you fly a 767 or a Dodge Dart, nobody cares. Your comments don't help, they don't inform, and mostly they go ignored but tonight I'm feeling frisky, thus I respond.

FYI, if you read the whole post, you'd know that RCA stands for Regional Collection Airport. Not something out of a 1999 Penthouse magazine. This is a NJA term, obviously you are not a NJA pilot. RAC was a misprint by somebody that made an honest mistake. Might have been typing with his thumbs from his BlackBerry, if this is the case it's obvious you're not a FLOPs pilot either.

What that leaves is the assumption that you really are just a "J3 type rated" pilot sitting in his hangar on the computer. He's got his hands in his underwear, getting away from his nagging wife and in between looking up pictures of 16 year old asians he occasionaly posts on an aviation forum, desperately trying to have some kind of human interaction. Most likely a result of an abusive childhood. Fear not though, J3 there are therapists that make millions just waiting to take on a case such as yours pro bono.

Please do us all a favor and do a Google search for the poser forum and join today. I'll pay your registration costs.

Best wishes.

Guido

 

[Ty Webb]

Whew!!!!!!

[wipes a tear from the corner of one eye]

That was one for the flightinfo.com Hall of Fame.

 

[dime line]

Hey Guido, if you didn't know Pamela does have a very nice rack!

 

[J3 Guy]

Guido....chill out, it was just a light hearted remark about Pamela Anderson and her 2 talents.
You must be something to fly with, do you go ballistic if ATC does not give you a certain altitude?
I have more aviation experience in my left eyelid, that you have in your entire body.
Its bad enought you frac guys have dragged the pay down for the 91 ops the last 10 years, but you expect the highest wages.
I think we all agree that the person that needs to open an account with a therapist is you.

J3

 

[guido411]

J3,

You missed the point. My point wasn't about making an off-handed remark about Pam Anderson (yes dime, I agree, it is a quite nice rack). My point was that since last month when you joined us here you've done nothing but stir the pot, and post flame bait. I don't think anybody that works for any fractional apprecitates your comments on scabbing in the even of a NJA strike, or your comments that have nothing to do with the thread topic.

I will not debate flight times and experience with you, I don't know you and you don't know me. What I DO know is what you're NOT. All I am saying is that it's obvious you're not a fractional pilot. So please, we have our own problems and they cannot be solved or helped by you, in fact they can't be solved at all by griping on a message board, but if we feel like letting off some steam then please try not to interfere.

Good Day,

Guido

 

[J3 Guy]

Guido
Its not my fault 2-3000 look at my posts..its their business to look or not. My posts are in regards to fractional flying good or bad. Last time I checked this is a free society.
Netjets on strike and asking if it would be a good time to start was just a question. You have this thread all out of alignment now,makes it very confusing for Netjets and FLOPS management to keep straight.


J3