The END OF LEONIDAS is finally upon us

[becket]

Usapa=scabs

 

[PuffDriver]

Nah... I'll leave you guys to fight over it. I only said something because of Puff's absurd attempt at logic, and then responding to a few responses directed at me. Other than general concern about the incredibly dangerous precedent overturning an agreed-upon binding arbitration award would set, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't even know any guys at USAir, east OR west. (Other than DCA, that is--he and I are tight! )

Carry on....

Bubba

Dude, I don't spend my whole life here like some of you, so if I didn't respond to something, well, tough.

The logic is sound. You are trying to equate the award with what is happening absent the award. If the award went away, it would be a do over. No matter what, the East pilots will lose and the west pilots will gain. Your entire post was essentially a red herring.

As far as damaging the whole world of arbitration with a groundbreaking overturn of arbitration, relax. The world has changed since anyway, with MB entering the process. Even if it did throw the whole process into upheaval, so what? Do you think the stock market will crash. I seriously doubt it. If you want to go with groundbreaking, go look at AT/SWA where management actually comes in to help the screw job of one group over another. But I digress.

No, the West side is suing anyone and everyone to prevent the loss of the Nic, which exemplifies how lopsided the award was. The East could have done the same thing with or without USAPA: do everything in its power to prevent a joint CBA, and thus, list implementation. That little nugget gets lost as well: The east could be doing the same thing with ALPA. Thus, the process is already changed, as ALPA also realizes that the process was flawed. So, in summation: west is suing everyone to protect their windfall, east is dang everything they can to prevent the west pilots' windfall. Had the award been more equitable, this would not be happening, and both sides would just be pissed.

It was a stupid award from the start, and just goes to show how much damage that process can do with respect to airline mergers, which is why policy has changed, and laws have been written.

Remember that Delta was "days from liquidation" as well. You know what they did? Came to an agreement with their creditors at the last minute, just as USAirways would have. Doug grew the East for a couple of reasons, the East contract min fleet, and the revenue of the company primarily coming from the east operations. This is evidenced by how much of the west flying done in the east operation. Check it out. You may be surprised.

BTW, if I were a senior east pilot, I would be fighting with Leonidas to keep the award, and if I were a senior west pilot I would be silently hoping the Nic went away. Giving the top 500ish spots to USAIR to protect the wide body positions did NOTHIING, for relative seniority not the wide body FIRST OFFICER positions, and age 65 going away simply exacerbated the audacity of the award. Throw in some furloughees who are now senior to their former self, and throw in a 4 month pilot senior to 17 year pilots and disaster is born.

This is independent thinking at its finest. It is the simplest and purest form of fairness: one day does not even come close to defining a career, and this disaster of award.

The Nic slaps us all in the face with that. Fortunately for all of you, logic has nothing to do with anything in this matter.

My opinion is that the best thing which could happen is a 3 way, no Nic, and everyone represents themselves. Otherwise, watch what happens to the AA furloughees, right? No matter what, especially with the age of the AA and East pilots, the west pilots have already hit a home run just to be part of this merger, and will be given the first 3 games of the World Series and a 20-0 lead in the bottom of the ninth in game 4 if the NIC is allowed to stand. Everybody knows it, whether or not they will admit it, just as the SWA pilots knew that arbitration would be a disaster for them, and sought alternative means.

The current process has nothing to do with fairness, make no mistake.

 

[becket]

The West is suing the guilty party. The ones that have withheld no effort to deprive them of all of their rights as unionized employees. USCABBA is nothing but organized crime and nobody is going to let those scabs rest until they're dead and buried.

 

[vetrider]

Puffin black smoke. Puff puff puff.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puffin black smoke. Puff puff puff.

Yawn, dude.

I'm sure the DOJ is suing because of the monopoly the new American will have on PHX.

 

[PuffDriver]

The West is suing the guilty party. The ones that have withheld no effort to deprive them of all of their rights as unionized employees. USCABBA is nothing but organized crime and nobody is going to let those scabs rest until they're dead and buried.

Whatever. A guilty verdict in this country is by no means a "justice delivered" verdict. Some in this industry know what is what. Perhaps the whole thing will just fall apart with this new DOJ move and we can see just how the West saves the East. Here is a thought, spin the west and the east off to separate companies, and see which one sells first and which one dissolves.

You guys can have your anonymous board. Big fish in the little pond, like you have always been.

 

[Bringupthebird]

My opinion is that the best thing which could happen is a 3 way, no Nic, and everyone represents themselves.

You should have thought of that before you delivered the cards to the NMB in the little coffin. You wanted to represent the pilots and now the judge is going to force you to actually do just that.

I think in light of todays DOJ action, Judge Silver will be even more likely to grant the west the justice they have been denied.

 

[vetrider]

.....

I think in light of todays DOJ action, Judge Silver will be even more likely to grant the west the justice they have been denied.

How do you figure that? That would most certainly be nice though.

 

[Turtle21]

You should have thought of that before you delivered the cards to the NMB in the little coffin. You wanted to represent the pilots and now the judge is going to force you to actually do just that.

I think in light of todays DOJ action, Judge Silver will be even more likely to grant the west the justice they have been denied.

Damn straight it is more likely now that it is undeniable that entering into a contingent MOU without the Nic in fact caused no harm whatsoever.

Her decision is very easy now!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

How do you figure that? That would most certainly be nice though.

The situation will not materially change in the interim between now and when this shows up on her doorstep again. The parties have not agreed to abandon the merger or nullify the MOU, merely alter the timeline.

Now if AA and US part formally part ways, then that may be a different issue. USAPA will have a hard time currying favor with APA by adding their support for a merger while at the same time trying to convince the judge that it will never happen.

She will see that the time to put this to rest is now. No one benefits by uncertainty.

 

[Turtle21]

The situation will not materially change in the interim between now and when this shows up on her doorstep again. The parties have not agreed to abandon the merger or nullify the MOU, merely alter the timeline.

Now if AA and US part formally part ways, then that may be a different issue. USAPA will have a hard time currying favor with APA by adding their support for a merger while at the same time trying to convince the judge that it will never happen.

She will see that the time to put this to rest is now. No one benefits by uncertainty.

WTF are you trying to say. You sound like a beauty pageant contestant.

 

[PuffDriver]

The situation will not materially change in the interim between now and when this shows up on her doorstep again. The parties have not agreed to abandon the merger or nullify the MOU, merely alter the timeline.

Now if AA and US part formally part ways, then that may be a different issue. USAPA will have a hard time currying favor with APA by adding their support for a merger while at the same time trying to convince the judge that it will never happen.

She will see that the time to put this to rest is now. No one benefits by uncertainty.

Yeah, whatever. You're reaching.

 

[doh]

That's kind of a stupid one-sided comment. The east pilots are fighting equally as hard; are they fighting to protect their "windfall"? They must be, since that's how your stated "logic" seems to work. In fact, they fought so hard that they did something unheard of in the industry (so far)--they kicked out ALPA and started a new union, with the sole purpose of advancing THEIR particular idea of "fair" (DOH). That is USAPA's sole premise and reason for existence. And of course, this was AFTER an agreed-upon neutral third party had already ruled, and AFTER their initial round of appeals to ALPA and the courts had failed.

You say that you're outside of USAPA; I suppose I'll take you at your word about that. However, your "outside" views of this situation are in an incredibly miniscule minority. I'd bet that if you did a poll of all airline pilots, outside of USAir east and west, that 95 (or more) out of 100 would say that the Nic award should have been implemented years ago.

Bubba

That is absolutely true! The vast majority of us agree with that statement!

 

[Turtle21]

That is absolutely true! The vast majority of us agree with that statement!

Then of all the OAL jumpseaters none have the stones or integrity to express themselves. Frankly most of them don't give a rats about what you think they think.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Oh, yeah they do. Why do you think folks have fought wars and enjoined allies to defend what is right. Slimy attempts to evade what is right are always revealed for what they are.

Small worlds and long memories don't help make the slimy actions fade away as quickly as you would like.

 

[Turtle21]

Oh, yeah they do. Why do you think folks have fought wars and enjoined allies to defend what is right. Slimy attempts to evade what is right are always revealed for what they are.

Small worlds and long memories don't help make the slimy actions fade away as quickly as you would like.

Allies?

So tell us all about your allies. Do your allies have their names posted on the Silver, Gold, Titanium, Platinum donator's Hall of Fame supporting Leospanker or are they just a few FI posters feigning undying devotion to your cause?

Or are they merely legions named Figment of Yorr, of Yorr Imaga Nation.