the dream gone forever?

[VVJM265]

So what do you guys recommend for someone who is active duty military, approaching his 20 in a couple of years, and wondering if he should retire and try the airline thing or stay in the military past 20? Obviously, if I stay, I will continue to make good money and continue to increase my pension every year. On the downside, there is a good chance I may be forced out of the cockpit into a desk job. If I retire, my pension will definetly help offset the low pay but, as Otto said in his initial post, I hear so much negative on board that I am wondering if the career is worth it.

Get your app in at NetJets now, the sooner the better. Find out who you have flown with there and get a strong LOA or two. And no you don't have to dump toilets - the line guys do it and you throw them a tip. PM me about NJA if you want.

Stay far away from the vast majority of the 121 stuff, SWA, CX, FDX, UPS excluded, imho.

Have a backup plan.

Best of luck,
265

 

[geojet707]

Its all a matter of evolution. Its also a matter of how much longer the lunatics (passengers) are going to run the asylum.

In the pre-deregulation era, government oversight dictated fares to an extent that the airlines had their own destiny in their hands. Granted losses occurred, but a great deal of that was due to poor decision. Today the passenger dictates to us what they are willing to pay (by shopping the fares and then complaining) for a lift on our airline. With high costs, need to stay competitive, low yield on your product and a few more bad management decisions, now you have an industry that is ripe with bankruptcy, furloughs, mergers and a general mess.

Will this industry ever be what it was in the past? Only when those carriers that remain decide to take back control of the fares, leave the labor force alone to do what they do best and tell the passenger what they are going to pay.

 

[c141ip]

So what do you guys recommend for someone who is active duty military, approaching his 20 in a couple of years, and wondering if he should retire and try the airline thing or stay in the military past 20? Obviously, if I stay, I will continue to make good money and continue to increase my pension every year. On the downside, there is a good chance I may be forced out of the cockpit into a desk job. If I retire, my pension will definetly help offset the low pay but, as Otto said in his initial post, I hear so much negative on board that I am wondering if the career is worth it.

I retired last year (22 years Air Force) and was hired by a legacy airline. I work (away from home) about 18 days a month. I obviously don't have holidays or weekends off since I was hired about a year ago. What was not as obvious to me is that I can expect a similar schedule for many, many years to come. My youngest son, still at home for 7 more years, will see me approx 2.5 years of that 7 years, and not on Christmas or Thanksgiving or the weekends. That's the down side, not complaining, just letting you know my experience.

The up side, still being fairly new, the flying is good, I like the airplane and the folks I fly with. The days off are good during the summer, since every day is a weekend and the family can do things together.

I chose this path, so were going to stick it out a little longer until we decide on plan B.

My feelings at this point ~1 year flying the line:
-I wouldn't recommend it to my friends.
-QOL is not good (for me and my family). We could live with that for a few years, but as mentioned earlier, it just doesn't get any better, for a long, long time.
-Whatever you do, don't commute. I have an easy commute, 40 minutes flying time, but sitting reserve and short call (for the foreseeable future) = more time away from home.
-I should have stayed in the AF, even with a desk job.

Just wanted to share my opinion with you. Other airlines could be better or worse.

 

[satpak77]

I retired last year (22 years Air Force) and was hired by a legacy airline. I work (away from home) about 18 days a month. I obviously don't have holidays or weekends off since I was hired about a year ago. What was not as obvious to me is that I can expect a similar schedule for many, many years to come. My youngest son, still at home for 7 more years, will see me approx 2.5 years of that 7 years, and not on Christmas or Thanksgiving or the weekends. That's the down side, not complaining, just letting you know my experience.

The up side, still being fairly new, the flying is good, I like the airplane and the folks I fly with. The days off are good during the summer, since every day is a weekend and the family can do things together.

I chose this path, so were going to stick it out a little longer until we decide on plan B.

My feelings at this point ~1 year flying the line:
-I wouldn't recommend it to my friends.
-QOL is not good (for me and my family). We could live with that for a few years, but as mentioned earlier, it just doesn't get any better, for a long, long time.
-Whatever you do, don't commute. I have an easy commute, 40 minutes flying time, but sitting reserve and short call (for the foreseeable future) = more time away from home.
-I should have stayed in the AF, even with a desk job.

Just wanted to share my opinion with you. Other airlines could be better or worse.

Excellent post. The way you put it regarding "time with son" puts things into perspective, at least for those of us who care about family.

Please expand on "stay in AF" comment

good post

 

[eatme]

ATA stopped flying April 3 2008.

So did I.

I'd rather be home and see my wife and kids than chase some flying job all over the world. Lots of people going to India and Japan and Korea. Good for them (no, really!!) but that ain't for me. I don't want to be gone for 2 months, then home 1, no matter WHAT it pays. My kids cried when they saw that suitcase and pilot case come out before trips. "Kids get over that", you say??? Well, why should they have to go through it in the first place, I say.

To each his own, if you want to keep chasing that airline job, then good luck to you, and I hope you get it.

Keep in mind - FedEx just dropped their guarantee to 66 hours didn't they?? Aren't they overstaffed now with the 72 retirements being stepped up??? Didn't they end up NOT getting that Europe mail contract, and now no Paris domicile??? Can't get people to go to HKG??? UPS taking over ASTAR flying???

I don't even think cargo is the place to be these days.

Nope, I have come to terms with this myself, and I am fine with it. We all have our limits, and I have reached mine.

Good luck to you though........

With regards to FDX..all not true

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I feel compelled to throw my two cents in here.....

I've been flying over 15 years, and have been with a scheduled carrier for about 12. I like what I do. From the time the cabin door closes until the time it opens this really is a great job. However, all the other baggage that comes with "block to block" isn't so hot.

You will fly sick.

You will fly tired.

You will fly hungry because you just haven't had time to eat.

You will spend hours trying to figure out the best way to pack 6 days of stuff in a 3 day suitcase.

You will eat like crap on the road. You'll eat many of your meals in 5 minutes or less.

Depending on your situation, you may or may not waste hours of your life contemplating your commute to and from work.

You will sit in hotel rooms and miss your family so badly it hurts.

Your kids will cry when they see you packing your suitcase.

You'll miss your kids' first steps/first words/first base hit in little league/first date/high school graduation.

You will miss more holidays and major family events than you will attend.

You have about a 50/50 chance of being stuck in a hotel somewhere with no immediate way home when you get the phone call telling you one of your parents has died.

There will be many times when your entire day is wake up, fly 5 legs, ride to the hotel, and try like hell to get to sleep because you have a 9 hour overnight with another 5 leg, 12 hour day tomorrow.

You will spend your entire career under constant scrutiny. When you make even the most minor mistake you will start to think about how it can hang you. You will develop a bad case of paranoia.

Odds are the company you choose to make a living with will furlough you at least once during your career. If you're lucky enough to avoid a furlough, you'll most likely endure a devastating paycut or two.

If you have four days off between trips, you'll most likely start dreading your return to work after your first full day at home. During your last full day at home before a trip, your wife will likely ask you, "What's wrong?"

There will be times when you don't think you have it in you to get out of bed and go do this job anymore.

And, to add insult to injury, all your friends and neighbors will continually tell you how lucky you are because you have a job that gives you so much free time and pays you "60 to 250 dollars an hour". You'll live your life around people who think that just because you happen to be off on Tuesday and Wednesday that you're living the "high life". After a while, you'll lose interest in trying to explain to them how it really is.

At the end of the day though, we all have to make a living. It's a job. Just like most any job, it's crappy more often than it's good. However, in my opinion, the cons now outweigh the pros. There was a time in the not too distant past where we were adequately compensated for the time we spend away from home and the disruption to our family's lives. For now, and for the forseeable future, that time is gone.

You will work as hard as or harder than your friends and neighbors and spend far more time away from home for equal or less pay.

Now, if the immediate gratification of shooting a difficult approach to a short runway in blowing snow or breaking out at minimums on your second try when you're thin on gas is enough to offset the harsh reality of what this job really is, then by all means go for it. However, you need to be damn sure you know what you're getting yourself into for the next 30 years or so.

There are better things to do with your life. Just my opinion.

 

[727C47]

please try the fractionals

 

[pilotyip]

It is a great job if you fly because you like to.

 

[Skybus]

The "dream" my friend is to fly airplanes. Nothing else. All this nonsense of the "good ol days"..... You have chosen to focus on a very brief period in a relatively brief industry just now beginning to mature.

If its the money... get out or don't get in.

If its the "chicks" get out unless your into older overweight women. Or perhaps your "curious".

The glamour is only in the movies and a very very few heavy metal flyers that were fortunate enough to fly in the 60s and are dead by now or close to it.

 

[727C47]

i reiterate try the fracs , the majors are having one of their cyclical bad times right now, the freights are largely overstaffed,the fracs are a great way to fly,if you have that deep,burning unquenchable flame within you to fly for a living,the fracs are a wonderful path to follow.