The Big FLOPS now 100% RAYTHEON Thread

[choppengruven]

With the way you've been posting lately you can spoon with yourself. I dont think we have to worry about NJ pilots looking to get any advatage on FLOPS, with people like you on "our" side why worry about them? Seriously why even bother posting crap about NJ pilots taking advantage of us now? After there is a positive yes vote then you can start your malicous mele and have this whole conversation with all five of yourselves again. BTW can we be counting on 5 yes votes from you?

 

[Diesel]

Remember Taminami in NYC.

Vote early and vote often!

 

[Cavpilot]

Anybody else notice that Voice Of Reason's rants read an awful lot like a GH memo?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Anybody else notice that Voice Of Reason's rants read an awful lot like a GH memo?

:nuts:
If GH put out memos like that I guess I'd fail to see what the problem would have been.
(...and you think I'm on something?...)
Posts like Cavpilot's are indicative of those who
post without reading, and only see what they want to see.....
makes for more malicious posting, but lacks in any kind of sense....

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Most Annoying,Overused,& Prematurely Cliched Words & Phrases

Fear Uncertainty and Doubt

2006 List of Banished Words

SURREAL – One part opiate of the masses, 13 parts overuse. Oddly, news anchor and television small talk is becoming more surreal. “Dreams are surreal, not daily adjectives.” – Tracy from Murray, Ky. HUNKER DOWN – To brace oneself, in anticipation of media onslaught. Trotted out in reports about everything from politics to hurricanes. “I have a hankering to ban all of this hunkering.” – Kate Rabe Forgach, Fort Collins, Colo.
PERSON OF INTEREST – Found within the context of legal commentary, but seldom encountered at cocktail parties. “People with guns want to talk with you.” – Melissa Carroll from Greensboro, NC. “Does this mean the rest of us are too boring to deal with?” – Patricia Johnson from Mechanicsville, Va.
COMMUNITY OF LEARNERS – A five-dollar phrase on a nickel-errand. Value-added into many higher education mission statements. “Not to be confused with ‘school.'” – Jim Howard from Mishawa, Ind.
UP OR DOWN VOTE – A casualty of today's partisanship. No discussion on this one; the committee just tossed a coin. “I see a bright future for ex-senators as elevator operators.” — Allan Dregseth, Fargo, ND.
BREAKING NEWS – Once it stopped presses. Now it's a lower-intestinal condition brought about by eating dinner during newscasts. “Now they have to interrupt my supper to tell me that Katie Holmes is pregnant.” — Michael Raczko, Swanton, Ohio.
DESIGNER BREED – Many nominators consider this a bastardization of dog breeding. It may be a good line to use on angry neighbors when an un-neutered dog escapes. “When you mate a miniature schnauzer to a toy poodle, it's not a ‘Schnoodle,' it's a mongrel.” – George Bullerjahn, Bowling Green, Ohio.
FEMA – Dedicated to the memory of a great federal agency consigned to the ash heap of parody. “If they don't do anything, we don't need their acronym.” – Josh Hamilton, Tucson, Ariz.
FIRST-TIME CALLER – Preamble often heard on talk radio. “I am serious in asking: who in any universe gives a care?” – Miguel McCormick, Orlando, Fla.
PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU! – Marketing catch phrase that became a lost-leader long ago. “Read: Pass the markup along to you.” – C. W. Estes, Roanoke, Tex.
97% FAT FREE – Adventures in delusion. “Still has 3% fat . . . accept it.” – Andrew Clucas, Canberra, Australia.
AN ACCIDENT THAT DIDN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN – Best-laid mayhem. “This means some accidents need to happen, for whatever reason, I can't figure.” — Thomas Price, Orlando, Fla.
JUNK SCIENCE – Banished from the Marketplace of Ideas. “It's not scientists who are using this phrase so much as the people who practice junk politics.” – Ron LaLonde, Inuvik, Northwest Territories, Canada.
GIT-ER-DONE – (Any of its variations) It's overdone. “There's no escaping it. It's everywhere, from TV to T-shirts,” says Amanda Tikkanen of LaGrange, Ind. “Please tell me when we're done with this one.”
DAWG – No designer breed here. Someone should wash out this Spot. “Even parents are starting to use it!” – complains Mrs. Swartz's Fifth Grade Class in Church Road, Va. “This is species confusion.” – Rob Bowers, Santa Clara, Calif. “Don't call me ‘dawg'! I'm not your pet!” – Michael Swartz, Albuquerque, NM.
TALKING POINTS – Cover your ears! “Topics which will please those you want to impress.” – Michele Mooney, Van Nuys, Calif. Joe Wonsetler of Swanton, Ohio, believes the phrase was created after PR staffers stopped attending seminars on how to put a positive ‘spin' on their press releases.
HOLIDAY TREE – Many salvoes were fired during this past season's “war on Christmas.” At the risk of jumping into the breach, the committee feels that “Holiday tree” is a silly name for what most folks hold as a Christmas tree, no matter your preference of religion. Thank goodness we all agree on the first day of winter.
LSSU accepts nominations for the List of Banished Words throughout the year
**Late breaking addition: FUD

 

[Phoenix]

So if we send in our ballots IMMEDIATELY (if they even GET THEM OUT immediately) we'll be covered quicker... Yet, the company is legally not permitted to CHANGE compensation once the union is brought in officially... Sounds to me like they have no intention (as they never have) of raising pay, but want to be able to say "We wanted to give you ten grand more a year but the UNION won't let us.." Seen that game before.

ALSO, if you DO wait until after the 31st to do a final talley on the vote, they could actually have a WORSE package (presented as wonderful like with everything else they have done), and then they were able to get that in before the official union and an even LOWER starting point.

Is there ANY possible WAY to get these ballots to people IMMEDIATELY, with an IMMEDIATE send back plea????? I notice they said "No later than Jan 31st" (not ON) so I imagine their moles will be keep tabs on the progress and tell them when they quick need to push their mgt big plan through.
Tricky-tricky

My friend its rare that we agree but on this one you seem to have your eye on the ball.

Management will make vague inferences to this new pay package to confuse the vote and try to keep as many pilots as possible from returning a vote, on the off chance that more pay my actually materialize. They will not commit to any specifics about what the package will be, and the comensement date wouldn't come untill sometime after the projected conclusion of the vote. They will have some obscure "out" to keep them from this pay raise being held to status quo when we have a positive vote. the "out" will be something like, "the package has to be approved by Mother RTN before it is a done deal and Mother won't make a decision until the June Board meeting". Naturally after a positive vote Mother's Board will not approve it based on a critical financial analysis. This will legally get them off the hook and not have to give us the pay raise and avoid having the NMB and the courts on their back.

There will be lots of these distractions coming from management over the next few months.

Expect to see something from the pilot group looking at the hotel situation. This will be painted in the light of "look what management has allowed your pilots to accomplish". "We really care about you", "We're here to support you", We want this to be a good place for pilots" and any number of other platitudes to sell themselves as being something they are not and furthe confuse and distract our pilots.

The only reason that we are hearing these things from management now is because they know this is a serious drive for representation and a contract. Had we not received enough cards for a vote we would not have seen or heard any of the things management has been saying over the past 30 days.

The real danger is our short sighted pilots willing to go for the promise of quick money rather then the many benefits of a binding contract. What ever can be given with a BB key stroke, can also be taken away with the same BB key stroke. A contract once ratified will gain us the pay we all want plus much, much more, but is will not come easy. I will take time and a lot of hard work form a lot of pilots. Also I have to mention that during this contract negotiation we will not be paying any dues and the cost of our first contract will be borne by out NJ brothers and sisters and it will take them years to recoup the cost. For all of the pilots of Options I thank you, NJ pilots for your commitment to helping us to achieve the same benefits you derive from your new contract.

To all Flight Options pilots, This board has been and is a great place to communicate. But I would like to invite you all to the Flight Options message board on the IBT 1108 website. This board is for Options pilots only. Please come and share you thoughts and experiences with us. http://www.ibt1108.org/options/index.html

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Exactly!

My friend its rare that we agree but on this one you seem to have your eye on the ball.

Management will make vague inferences to this new pay package to confuse the vote and try to keep as many pilots as possible from returning a vote, on the off chance that more pay my actually materialize. They will not commit to any specifics about what the package will be, and the comensement date wouldn't come untill sometime after the projected conclusion of the vote. They will have some obscure "out" to keep them from this pay raise being held to status quo when we have a positive vote. the "out" will be something like, "the package has to be approved by Mother RTN before it is a done deal and Mother won't make a decision until the June Board meeting". Naturally after a positive vote Mother's Board will not approve it based on a critical financial analysis. This will legally get them off the hook and not have to give us the pay raise and avoid having the NMB and the courts on their back.
Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

Exactly what I have been trying to say here, but some feeled compelled to twist it into "agenda".

What people need to realize is that they said "a NEW compensation package"...NOT a BETTER one! If they find they can't drag it out, mark my words it will be something they get in there quick to LESSEN compensation, while saying "look how great this is for the go forward plan".

AND if the union vote goes through first, after they've stalled, it costs them nothing to play the "We wanted to give you huge raises but the union won't let us" game. This is not speculation, this is HOW IT WORKS in the incoming union/mgt game. They do it ALL the time in other ops.

Surely no one here will be fooled by what is to come. They've had years to fix this....When I lose faith in them (and I generally tend to have faith that people can be basically good sometimes), then there is seriously something wrong.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Also~

....also, let's not forget that CITATION SHARES now, is a mirror image of FLOPS a few years ago. How quickly things cycle around. If its in writing you can't end up where we are now.

...I have to ask myself, even if the company DOES come forward with some above average industry package (which they won't)...Why aren't they offering this new compensation package in the form of an EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT??? :nuts: Lots of NON UNION companies have them...so there's your answer. They WON'T offer one because they DON'T plan on paying up for long if at all.

 

[miles otoole]

Also I have to mention that during this contract negotiation we will not be paying any dues and the cost of our first contract will be borne by out NJ brothers and sisters and it will take them years to recoup the cost. http://www.ibt1108.org/options/index.html

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

Sweet-no FLOPs union dues for 5-years paid for by NJA pilots.

 

[XPGuy]

Let's hope for all our sakes it doesn't take 5 years... and technically, it isn't just the 1108 paying for our union negotiating, it will be our international folks in Washington as well - but yeah, The 1108 will be shouldering most of it... so whoever was saying that the Net Jets pilots will be "taking advantage" of the FLOPS pilots really don't know what they are talking about - it is going to take several years for the 1108 to break even on what it will cost them to bring in FLOPS... and then of course FlexJet is supposedly next.