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The bell tolls for AA

General Lee

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till the time US carriers get their act together and realize that this is a service business - problems will continue to plague the legacy carriers.

High costs can be covered as long as you can charge for it. But who in their right mind would want to pay a premium for the "customer experience" that is offered by the legacies.


Hmmmm. Delta made billions in the last two years, primarily due to fees like bag fees. Seems like most planes are still full. They also had fuel surcharges and fare hikes that even Southwest followed because they aren't as well hedged as in the past. There is no doubt service is important, but what is more important is covering the total cost of a ticket plus a bit more to make a profit. This aint Amtrak. BTW, service has gotten better due to more enhanced business class products, like Direct TV in the seats, lie flat seats, better food for First or Business Class seats, etc. I even think Southwest increased their food choices to Cheezits. Awesome!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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BentOver

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Yeah, that was really fun. Yeah, we just voted to GIVE it to them for fun, for no real reason..... You are an idiot. The CEO came to us and stated "Do it once, do it right." We learned that was not really true, and I gave a little advice here. Here is some advice for you, "Enjoy West Texas and treat the Air Tran pilots better if you want to save your so called culture."



Bye Bye---General Lee


So you guys were just suckers then?
 

SpaceShipEarth

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Doesn't matter if the planes are full... I can lose half my customers and still operate full planes. The concern would be have ASMs increased or decreased.
 

General Lee

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So you guys were just suckers then?

Great cocky response! I really hope you are NEVER faced with the same option. We definitely learned something, and I hope others have too.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Doesn't matter if the planes are full... I can lose half my customers and still operate full planes. The concern would be have ASMs increased or decreased.

Increased big time. RASM was up 11%.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

HalinTexas

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How come we don't see CASM any more?
 

jetflier

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IMO AA pilots need to hang tough and not give in. If CH11 is being threatened, then let it roll, because the BOD has already decided to go there. That is something that is planned long before it happens. It is never a knee jerk reaction.

AA management will try to squeeze the pilots with the threat of CH11 and then if the pilots agree to a concession, AA management will continue into the planned CH11 for more concession$.

Management wants to remove the pension, that's what its all about anyway.
 

Fubijaakr

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AA management will try to squeeze the pilots with the threat of CH11 and then if the pilots agree to a concession, AA management will continue into the planned CH11 for more concession$.

Management wants to remove the pension, that's what its all about anyway.

You got that right.
 

magrs

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They can have it...but it will cost them!

Even in bankrupcty, any deal is better than the current.

I'm on the sidelines, so no dog in the fight, but I would actually like to come back to some semblance of a pay raise.

Arpey will be gone with a BK filing as will much of the current management. Stay strong!
 

scoreboardII

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And thats my point. AA has retrenched and is unable to support their current network on a cost bases, even if the pilots work for free.
 

LearLove

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I don't know about you guys but my fear in this is that in CH11 (or even without 11) the AA guys agree to farm out 100 seaters. If that happens the rest of us at the bottom of DAL, UAL/CAL, AAA and even JB/SWA/Spirit will be in big jeopardy.

And BB (along with Mesa ans Skywest) is just chomping at the bit to find a place for his 190's and even grow that size fleet.

At that point the bottom 30 to 50% of each major's seniority list can kiss their career goodbye.
 
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Deli Guy

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I don't know about you guys but my fear in this is that in CH11 (or even without 11) the AA guys agree to farm out 100 seaters. If that happens the rest of us at the bottom of DAL, UAL/CAL, AAA and even JB/SWA/Spirit will be in big jeopardy.

And BB (along with Mesa ans Skywest) is just chomping at the bit to find a place for his 190's and even grow that size fleet.

At that point the bottom 30 to 50% of each major's seniority list can kiss their career goodbye.
And THEN....fast forward a few years:
"Economy...fuel....SARS....global conflict......cold sores....(fill in the blank), so that is why we desperately need to have SCOPE relief on 150 seat flying"
 

Flopgut

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I don't know about you guys but my fear in this is that in CH11 (or even without 11) the AA guys agree to farm out 100 seaters. If that happens the rest of us at the bottom of DAL, UAL/CAL, AAA and even JB/SWA/Spirit will be in big jeopardy.

And BB (along with Mesa ans Skywest) is just chomping at the bit to find a place for his 190's and even grow that size fleet.

At that point the bottom 30 to 50% of each major's seniority list can kiss their career goodbye.

FWIW, more than 50% of these pilot groups list's understand this, so that sort of event will more than likely include work actions. If these regional pilots want to do it they are going on a scab list. Probably not the deterent it once was, but we'll see...
 

OurMoney1

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They will drive this thing into CH 11 by years end.

They will gut labor.

They will filet scope.

They will blow the doors off of codeshare agreements.

They may be at a disadvantage now having not declared BK but they now are at a huge advantage because they will seek a post AA BK that undermines everyones current business plan.

Scary times....I agree UAL/DAL/LUV are gonna have a new 800 pound gorilla to deal with.
 

rudder

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They will drive this thing into CH 11 by years end.

They will gut labor.

They will filet scope.

They will blow the doors off of codeshare agreements.

They may be at a disadvantage now having not declared BK but they now are at a huge advantage because they will seek a post AA BK that undermines everyones current business plan.

Scary times....I agree UAL/DAL/LUV are gonna have a new 800 pound gorilla to deal with.

I disagree.

If there is a CH11 filing then it will not necessarily mean a blank cheque for mgmnt. Any labour comparison will be based on benchmarking and it is unlikely that a new lower bar will flow out of the court process.

However, the uncertainty reinforces that instead of acting as victims that the AA pilots should be acting proactively in engaging with potential equity sponsors in framing the business plan that will be submitted to the court.

Notably excluded from this discussion? Incumbent senior management and the incumbent AMR BOD. Hasta la vista
 

scoreboardII

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SWA would love to go against nothing but RJ's, they kick their CASM every leg, every day, all day long.
 

LearLove

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SWA would love to go against nothing but RJ's, they kick their CASM every leg, every day, all day long.

50 and 70 seaters for sure but against 100 to 115(ish) seats - I'd like to see those numbers.
 
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OurMoney1

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SWA would love to go against nothing but RJ's, they kick their CASM every leg, every day, all day long.

Something tells me an AA BK would reduce their dependency significantly on the RJ fleet. I see them leaning themselves out significantly.
 
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