The 100-Seat Regional

[PCL_128]

I have said this for years, and I will say it again, "We need a National Pilot's Guild". One that sets minimum pay rates that ALL carriers must pay. Your own union negotiates your CBA but no pilot can operate an aircraft for less than the rate set by the Guild. I would say the DAL numbers would be an approximate starting point.

Once pilot wages are even across the board, the carriers will have to look elsewhere to save money and raise ticket prices.

Ty, there was a discussion about this on the national ALPA message boards last year, but no one ever came up with any idea how to make it happen. It would certainly be nice, but how do you do it? I don't really think we have the support in congress to get any help from the gov't.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Support the RJDC in trying to change the union's direction!

You're your OWN worst enemy if you continue to spend time, effort and money on the RJDC. The again, you're already your own worst enemy anyway since you're stupid enough to believe this crap in the first place.

Then again, let's check the track record. Flying at a regional, when going in you knew the rules. STILL flying at the regionals when people are getting out left and right. Most to jobs with better pay, better rules, better retirements, better period.

Do you look both ways before you cross the street or are you expecting that someone ELSE will tell you the bus is coming or pull you out of the way at the last second?

 

[Empennage]

Ty, there was a discussion about this on the national ALPA message boards last year, but no one ever came up with any idea how to make it happen. It would certainly be nice, but how do you do it? I don't really think we have the support in congress to get any help from the gov't.

Yes, in fact this even received some traction in the Small Carrier Bargaining Conferences.

The fact is that as long as the majors continue to take "restructuring" agreements, the regionals will continue to be hit. It is no secret that UAL continued to push and push it's regional carriers for lower cost and the same goes for U. Now look at Delta with a freeze at Comair and NW adding jets to Mesaba while PNC goes into a Section 6 period.

The regionals are now being whipsawed left and right. Air Wis, in my opnion, will probably take Mesa's flying in the U system. This will begin a net effect of carriers shifting and moving flying. I highly doubt Mesa will park aircraft. Look for others to be bought and/or displaced. It's going to get ugly.

I'm not sure that ALPA would buy into this as a whole. You are taking away a group's ability to negotiate a contract (e.g. putting more money into work rules versus pay rates). However, I think this has merit and maybe should be presented in a small ALPA group for pondering, e.g. caucus?

It will undoubtedly force alter-ego's, but at this point we have seem alter-egos fail at Mesa, Chat and Mesaba.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

I wouldn't get your panties up in a bunch too much yet, Air Wisconsin has been flying the 100 seat Bae's for 20 years and they never took over UAL. this whole situation will hit an equalibrium at some point and it will identify the separation from contract carrier to brand name carrier

 

[Roger Murdoch]

What is the current situation with the EMB-170s in the USAIR network? I heard that they were being transferred over to mainline and that even the EXPRESS titles were being stripped off the aircraft. Are all of them under the Mid Atlantic certificate?

 

[Smoking Man]

The EMB-170's at U are and have always been on the U.S. Airways certificate, due to the cost and time required to do proving runs for a certificate that had never operated jet aircraft. I believe the origional plan was for MidAtlantic to operate under the Potomac certificate, but due to the money situation at the time and the delivery schedule the EMB's went on the U.S. Airways certificate, they are refered to as the "Embraer division" of U.S. Airways. Also notice their call sign on the raido.... As far as Express on the side of the airplane, the only people that has affected are the pilots. The gate agents, ramp, MX, crew sched, etc are all mainline, the pilots and a few others are the only ones with MidAtlantic on their I.D's.

 

[dbrownie]

Believe it or not, one can make a decent living and retire well at a regional. Take USAIR for example. The most junior guy still flying there was hired around '88. Maybe berfore USAIR he flew at Comair, no wait, Pinnacle. Currently he is the most junior person on the property (ie next to go on furlough) makes $85 an hour, and gets the worst schedules. If he were still at Pinnacle (gasp) he would be in the top 10 easy. He would be making $82 an hour, and 18 days off a month and much more job security.

Carl;

The only thing you did not mention is that during 1988-2002 that pilot would
have easily made over $100,000 a year loaded his 401k (if he was smart)
and got a head start on his kids college costs!

True he would be skimping now but that is the chance when we take
a job.

Dave B

 

[Ty Webb]

If he were still at Pinnacle (gasp) he would be in the top 10 easy. He would be making $82 an hour, and 18 days off a month and much more job security.

And if he was a third year FO at SWA he would have the same deal, plus a heck of an upside when he chose to upgrade.

I remember that some of the Comair guys we hired at AirTran went back to Comair after the strike. If they had stayed here, they would be holding a line as a 737 CA making $120./hr right now . . . . . lucky for me, they didn't stick it out.

 

[Zinger]

One idea to begin to shift the paradigm is to change the mindset of the labelling of the "regional jet". First, let's call these jets SMALL JETS. Regional Jets they are not .....these things are flying internationally and much farther than most of us expected. What's regional about them? Nothing at all...especially when you're stuck on one for a two hour + flight.

If we continue calling these things "regional jets", I believe it has a psychological effect on the pilots. It seems to me like propaganda and a psychological warfare tactic.....seeking to subjugate the meek and to "keep those pilots in their rightful places". These are ever larger capacity, high technology pieces of equipment and the pilots ought no to buy into this mindset.

 

[michael707767]

If we continue calling these things "regional jets", I believe it has a psychological effect on the pilots. It seems to me like propaganda and a psychological warfare tactic.....seeking to subjugate the meek and to "keep those pilots in their rightful places". These are ever larger capacity, high technology pieces of equipment and the pilots ought no to buy into this mindset.

I agree. Whoever labled these regional jets was smart. It got a whole generation of airline pilots to bite off on the outsourcing of these aircraft.

 

[Tomct]

Zinger: I agree with you. These airplanes are flying a lot farther than "Regional" flying! We do the same work as mainline, but on a smaller scale. I would love nothing more than move onto mainline, but right now these airplanes are paying the bills! I truely hope things get better!

 

[Carl_Spackler]

That was just an example. Also making $100,000 means NOTHING, if you spend it. Hopefully they were smart, lived modest, saved, Roth, 401K, etc. But most people, when they earn big, they spend big.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Zinger: I agree with you. These airplanes are flying a lot farther than "Regional" flying! We do the same work as mainline, but on a smaller scale. I would love nothing more than move onto mainline, but right now these airplanes are paying the bills! I truely hope things get better!

Are we really sure the RJ is paying the bills??? If you are affiliated with a Wholly-owned, have you seen the books??? Does this include the siphoning of mainline pax away from the hub for the "RJ experience"??? All the while taking BS pay freezes and undercutting the other wholly-owned carriers just to get their hands on a few MAINLINE purchased jets.

If we are speaking of a fee-for-departure regional, THEY are paying their own bills, not tugging at the skirt of mainline whenever they need new planes and hiring pilots while mainline furloughees are on the street.

Really spools me up listening to the regional crowd brag about their results when no one person knows the TRUE financials except those in the boardroom.

 

[dojetdriver]

Good grief, when I read the headline to this thread I thought people were gojng to be talking about the orginal RJ's of 100 seat capacity. You know, the 737-200 and the DC-9?

LOL

 

[§kyye Candy]

The problem with most pilot groups is... they need to stop thinking like pilots and start thinking like management.

Otherwise, we will definitely see more "value" airilnes. So how does a 20-day (on) schedule @ $60K/year sound to you after a 30 year career of flying?