Tell 'em what they've won Bob!

[varicam]

If folks are having trouble distinguishing SWA from a PFT company, maybe the following will shed some light:


SWA=You bring to the table a pilot certificate containing a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc. to the interviewer. If hired, FAA-required training will be provided by SWA at their expense.

PFT=You bring to the table a pilot certificate that may or may not contain a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc., and a check to the interviewer. If hired, the check you presented will pay for FAA-required training.

 

[wingnutt]

BINGO, we have a winner! varicam just nailed it (barring all the other drawn out posts) on the head.

SWA=you dont pay the company a dime. they dont care how you got the type, be it; military, previous job, or on your own.

PFT=you actually pay the company you want to "work" for.

...thats about as simple as it gets

 

[bobbysamd]

SWA and P-F-T

SWA=You bring to the table a pilot certificate containing a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc. to the interviewer. If hired, FAA-required training will be provided by SWA at their expense.

PFT=You bring to the table a pilot certificate that may or may not contain a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc., and a check to the interviewer. If hired, the check you presented will pay for FAA-required training.

(emphasis added)

At least someone gets it. Seconded. Excellent, and elegant, analysis.

I still would submit, however, that you could forego your resume, certficates and logbooks and just bring the check. That's the only qualification they care about. That's one reason why P-F-T is such a sham.

 

[B190Captain]

If folks are having trouble distinguishing SWA from a PFT company, maybe the following will shed some light:


SWA=You bring to the table a pilot certificate containing a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc. to the interviewer. If hired, FAA-required training will be provided by SWA at their expense.

PFT=You bring to the table a pilot certificate that may or may not contain a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc., and a check to the interviewer. If hired, the check you presented will pay for FAA-required training.

SWA=You bring to the table a pilot certificate containing a B-737 type rating. You present your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc. to the interviewer. If hired, FAA-required training will be provided by SWA at their expense. If you do not have a 737 type rating that in most casesYOU PAID FOR!! You do not get hired. Please exclude the candidates that have obtained a 737 type from another employer.

If I send my resume to SWA and do not have a type rating, I do not have a chance in hell even if my experience and credentials exceed a candidate with a type. Not having a type is what hinders me from even being considered for employment at SWA.

The only way you can classify a company that is not PFT is a company that you bring to the table your resume, certificates, logbooks, etc. to the interviewer. If hired, FAA-required training will be provided by that particular company at their expense, INCLUDING TYPE RATINGS REQUIRED.

It is not required by the FAA for a entry level FO to have a type rating, therefore, training for a type for SWA is money out of YOUR POCKET. That my friend is PFT (Pay For Type) IMO, it's PFT no matter how you look at it.

For example Exec Jet even though they are not 121 they do require all pilots, no matter what seat, have a type for the aircraft flown. They do not require a type when you interview because THEY PAY FOR THE TYPE!!! not you.

The bottom line is if money leaves your pocket for training as a condition for employment, like the type requirement at SWA, then it is PFT.

Fly Safe!!!

 

[B190Captain]

BINGO, we have a winner! varicam just nailed it (barring all the other drawn out posts) on the head.

SWA=you dont pay the company a dime. they dont care how you got the type, be it; military, previous job, or on your own.

PFT=you actually pay the company you want to "work" for.

...thats about as simple as it gets

"or on your own."

Well those 67,000 dimes leave your pocket to yet another company to get the type!! (est. $6,700.00 for a 737 type)

 

[YaMama]

PFT is easy to spot.

Well, I think the continuing debate over whether SWA is PFT or not shows that it isn't. What is fairly easy to spot are the shady operators who are looking to make a few quick bucks by exploiting employees (and probably customers too). And when we get fired up about these guys, and warn other pilots to stay away from them, we are behaving as we should. But the central question is not "Is it PFT?" but "Is it a good company to work for?"

I would love to see one of the PFT zealots go into hysterics about how SWA should take their lousy job and shove it, must be a terrible company to work for, etc. They would be laughed into the next time zone.

the only reason i disagree with the whole idea of PFT, specially F/O programs, is because if people woldn't pay for those positions, those airlines would have to hire pilots to do that job. this means more jobs and better paychecks for us.

This is back to whining about the law of supply and demand (or the lack of a nationwide pilots' union). You know, back in 2000 I heard a lot of employers whining about how there was a CFI shortage - what they meant was there was a shortage of CFIs willing to hang around the FBO for 80 hours a week, teach in crappy equipment, and put up with bitchy management for the bargain rate of $12,000 a year (always somebody whining about supply and demand). The economic pendulum swings back and forth, and yes it sucks to be on the wrong end of the swing, as we pilots are now, but that's the way this game is played. Companies trying to exploit pilots is just a symptom, it's not the cause.

 

[YaMama]

Here's a good one.

Just saw this job post on climb to 350:

CFII needed in West Texas. 300 TT. If you are from West Texas it is a plus. Low time CFII's need not hesitate to apply. Duties include, Instruction, Maintenance scheduling, and light office work. Humble individuals wanting to build time fast preffered. No calls, FAX only. When applying, ref: climbto350.com

Gotta love the way they emphasize "low-time," "build time fast" and "humble." I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that this guy is a scumbag looking to exploit the pants off of some poor kid. Is it PFT? Of course not. Is it deserving of our scorn nonetheless? Heelll yes.

 

[bobbysamd]

Re: Here's a good one.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that this guy is a scumbag looking to exploit the pants off of some poor kid. Is it PFT? Of course not. Is it deserving of our scorn nonetheless? Heelll yes.

Not to mention that without a doubt in my $0.02 opinion that the office work and admin duties will be uncompensated. That is fine, up to a point - that is part of paying your dues, and you gain experience which you can list on your resume. It crosses the line if you are expected to do these things for free for too many hours.

 

[climbhappy]

eagleflip, nc state got their butts whooped right here in my home town yesterday. that avatar might be in need of refreshment!

i know the guy who is running vision. any one willing to pay for a seat is a total loser right now. your pulling onto the highway of airline flying by cutting in the the jam from the woods. y'ain't goin nowhere dadburnit. so get get real!

 

[CatYaaak]

I am confused... wouldn't southwest requiring a type be like most corporate flight departments. Don't most companies hiring pilots into a G-V expect that you are typed in the A/C? Doesn't seem very P-F-T to me...

It's NOT like most corporate fight departments that require a type-rating, because those that do will undoubtedly also require along with it TIME-in-type, not just the rating where the ink is still wet. They seek experience. For a flight department that is sending their pilots to training on a full-service contract anyway, a type-rating alone is essentially worthless. Go spend 22K on that G-V type-rating and see how far it gets you.

As far as I know, SWA is the only place that considers a no-experience type-rating worth more than the paper it's printed on. All in all, it's a joke that everyone keeps falling for, cuz you ain't gonna be able to sell it anywhere else.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I sent in my application, check, and stool sample just like the HR lady told me, now I'm headed for jet-land while the rest of you pukes can keep flogging your cessnas!