TEB Questions...

[Kingairrick]

Going to TEB next week for the first time. Any advice from the old timers? (FBO, extra fuel for the taxi time, ect..)

 

[banned username 2]

Jet Aviation has a very nice facility. Plan an hour delay for departure, they are geting worse all the time (departure delays, not FBO delays).

If you want a great meal (Steaks, seafood and such) go to Segovia's, any of the FBO's will be able to get you there, it is well known.

If you do the ILS 6 into TEB there is a MANDATORY 1500 ft crossing restriction at Dandy Intersection. You MUST be at 1500 ft here, IF YOU FOLLOW THE GLIDE SLOPE DOWN FROM 2000 ft YOU WILL NOT MAKE THE RESTRICTION! You will be too high, and they will NOT like that! Once you are inside of Vings Intersection and established (and cleared for the approach) decend without delay to 1500 ft, then capture the glide slope while you are at 1500 ft and ride it down.

Hope this helps!

Good Luck!

 

[Timebuilder]

It's been a few months now.

Milion Air was supposed to build a new hangar/FBO, but I don't know if they even started to build it yet.

The most "posh" FBO is at the south end of the field, Jet Aviation. First, Million Air, Signature, and Atlantic seem cramped by comparison.

I never had a taxi fuel problem, but don't start until told to do so unless you like to burn fuel needlessly. Be loaded and have the door closed, ready for taxi. The atis has the details.

IMPORTANT: If you have never flown the TEB departures, study them now. Newark traffic flies overhead, and the level-off altitudes over TEB are gospel for pilots. When you are handed off to NY from TEB you will find them BUSY. Stick your nose in when you can, and then wait for instructions on your assigned altitude and heading. The TEB five is the common departure, and you can request the Dalton departure when you use 19 for takeoff.

This is out of order, but a word on arrivals:

The most common way of getting in is the VOR DME A appraoch that starts at WANES. Make sure you promptly step down to those altitudes as shown in the profile. Most of the time, this approach leads to a left overhead downwind for 19 or 24. Ususally, they want 1500 feet after CLIFFO.

Get to know the placement of the various VORS and intesections that are used as fixes for the departures. NY will rattle these off like you know them, so know them before you go.

STUDY THE PLACEMENT OF NOISE SENSORS. There is a chart from the port authority for this. We always used a maximum performance takeoff to the level off altitude, and pulled the power way back as we pushed the nose over to stay away from the sensors. They WILL fine you via tail number, and after a couple of times, you are banned from the airport. No kiddin'.

Anything else anyone can add?

 

[2000flyer]

Thats great advice from Falcon Capt and Timebuilder. Study your approaches and SIDS prior to your flight. That will make you flight less stressful.

As Falcon said, departure delays are routine, especially between 3-6PM. Throw in some weather and be ready to sit a while. If you have a hand held radio, bring it with you. That way if you get a gate hold you won't have to waste the aircraft battery listening for a start time (or worry about a GPU from the FBO).

ATC is sharp and helpful, but when workloads increase they may not have the time (or patience) to give assitance to the simple things.

If you're RON, I'd suggest one of the hotels in Secaucus. Most FBO's will take you. You have several hotels too choose from, Hampton, Embassy, Holiday Inn, etc. More important, if you don't have wheels, there are a host of restaurants and theatres there. If you have time to go into the city, there is a bus stop right by Outback. Something like $2-3 for a ticket to Time Square.

We use Jet Aviation as well. Great facility, snooze room, weight room, etc. Plus it has the best darn coffee / maker in use today. (I looked into buy one for personal use.....over $1000 for the maker alone!....needless to say, I'm still using my Krups.)

Have a great trip and enjoy the experience!

2000Flyer

 

[NJA Capt]

STUDY THE PLACEMENT OF NOISE SENSORS.

I have flown out out TEB about every week for the last 5 years and I have no clue where the noise sensors are.
If you are thinking ahead (in a jet), you are pulling the power back long before the 1500' point on the TEB5 in order to level off.

Study the TEB5 departure from runway 1.

 

[Rick1128]

Good advise from NJA, also be careful about accepting departures out of TEB. The Dalton Departure is not in the Jepps. It is a local vfr departure offf of 19. All the FBOs should have a copy of it. DO NOT accept this departure without a copy of it in your aircraft. Several pilots have been violated because they did that and busted the vertical limits of the departure.

 

[Timebuilder]

One of our planes was facing being banned from TEB, so all of us had a good brifing on the sensors. I think First has a card available at the desk that shows where they are.

If you are thinking ahead (in a jet), you are pulling the power back long before the 1500' point on the TEB5 in order to level off.

I thought I said that. I wasn't trying to say that you wait until you reach 1500 to begin reducing power. It's process that is already in progress as you level off. My bad if I didn't accurately communicate that.

My copy of the Dalton is in my Jepps, page 10-3B.

 

[NJA Capt]

I thought I said that.

I hope you didn't think I was singling you out. I meant "you" in general sense. You me and everyone else.

 

[Gumby]

TEB....

I am bias of course, amongst other things, but Jet Aviation DOES have the best looking women behind the counter! Sorry to offend but...
Also there is a noise monitor located about 1.5 miles off RWY24. On about a 255 heading. It sits on the ridgeline to the SW. I would highly suggest using the 19 Dalton Departure if unsure how quiet you can be, until you become familiar on the surroundings. If you get 3 letters, the N# is banned forever! If you have less then three, every 24 months, one letter will drop from the file. The decibel level differs early in the morning and later on at night.

 

[flywithruss]

Agreed with above. Study the STARs, DPs, and ILS 6. The DANDY restriction Falcon Capt mentioned has bitten a lot of people and if you don't do it right they WILL chew you a new one. On the DP, note the headings and altitudes; they're complicated. Preferred configuration up there is land 6, depart 1. I've used MillionAir and Atlantic ... the MillionAir facility is impossibly cramped, but has the cheapest fuel generally. Atlantic is a little better facility-wise. Understand Jet has the nicest facility but have never visited. I do know Jet is the only place that doesn't have a ramp about half the size they need. Nail assigned headings and alts (remember EWR is only 10 miles away) and listen up and you'll be fine.

Or do what we do ... go to EWR instead.

R

 

[ruhroa]

k now that all have basically said keep your head on a swivel and get a good feel ........i will add one more thing to the brew ..........speed speed speed ..do not get above 200 kts i will repeat do not get above 200 kts on the climb they will bust ya bigger n dallas..no kiddin its class c underlyin a class b

take care

 

[Radiohofo]

TEB questions...

My experience with TEB FBO's has been with Jet, and thus far, it has been very good. When I have called ahead, regardless of weather, they have attacked our planes like a Nascar pit crew. The ground crew appreciates tips!

As stated previously, know the approach and departure procedures because it will be fast and furious! I have waited 1-2 hours for a start-up time. When departing and handed off to NY Center don't even expect them to call you. Just follow the dep. proc. and they will get to you...The pilots lounge at Jet is very nice. Enjoy the education!

Radiohofo

 

[Timebuilder]

Noise Sensors...

If you can't find that card, think about this.

When you do that very common overhead to a left downwind for 24 and 19, be aware that the hospital north of the field supposedly has a noise sensor on its roof. Don't let yourself get too low too soon and have to add power as you pass the hospital at a low altitude. Stay high enough on base to execute a normal glide path to the runway, and be aware of the displaced threshold. This way you can set your normal, lower power setting for your configured aircraft and avoid adding any power near that sensor, and therefore trigger the noise alert.

Out of 50 trips into TEB, I think we used the ILS 6 only four times. You really do have to watch that altitude when you approach from the south, as they are so busy that they can put you on the ILS at the last minute, and it's still up to you to meet the altitude restrictions. Do a good crew briefing before you reach flat rock.

 

[Vortilon]

Check your notams

I'm based it TEB and I'd agree with most of what everyone said. Its not a hard airport, you just need to pay attention and the controllers are generally very clear on what they expect.

Check your notams though....ILS 6 is out for a couple months so if you they are landing 6 you'll most likely be doing the VOR 6 or the RNAV/GPS 6 so plan accordingly if the weather is poor.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm based it TEB

Hey, I recognize your picture! You fly out of Million Air, right???

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The only thing good about that dump (TEB) is Steves Sizzlin Steaks.

 

[Gumby]

TEB

Someones' got the "cranky" pants on today?

 

[Vortilon]

Atlantic actually......the "working man's" FBO. They are going to remodeling very soon as well.

 

[Timebuilder]

I always liked Atlantic. It was the first FBO at TEB that I ever used, back in my Navajo days. The counter personnel were always good to us, even sharing a wonderful plate of fresh catering when a flight had been cancelled. Real jewish ryebread with roast beef and thousand island dressing. Yum!!

I always got in a game of pool whenever I could, and I enjoyed the constant activity and interesting people I met there.

I miss it.

 

[Flying Illini]

Everyone has good points. As far as leaving...leave before 2:30pm and you will be able to avoid any long delays (still expect 10-15 minutes of waiting). If your pax can't do that, just warn them of what to expect. The longest delay I've had there was 2 hours...and that was just before 5pm. Something good did come from that delay though...the pax ALWAYS make it back before 3pm now!!

There is a good diner with rice pudding that is just across from Flightsafety.

Have a good trip!

 

[Heavy Set]

I have never flown into TEB - although I have seen it from the air. What is the primary delay issue? Is it TEB's proximity to EWR and the resulting flow problem? Is it too many Gulfstreams and Globals trying to leave/arrive at the same time? Is it poor local ATC? Are these problems also experienced at HPN and Morristown - or is it just a local (EWR) issue?

 

[Timebuilder]

You are right on all counts, except the ATC issue. Those guys do a really great job most of the time. It's a very high stress piece of airspace.

Getting out of MMU can be a problem, and it is usually related to activity at Newark, and which way they are handling their traffic over there.

HPN is usually a matter of waiting in line to have your departure fit into the arrivals, as it is a busy little (?) airport.

 

[Flying Illini]

I agree with Timebuilder...the ATC guys at TEB and HPN are excellent. I've never had to wait longer than 25 minutes at HPN.

 

[GVFlyer]

TEB vs HPN

From a standpoint of convenience and risk management - I like WhitePlains. It's outside of the New York Severe Weather Avoidance Plan area so you can usually get into it and out of it without massive delays and a precision approach is available from either direction. At Teterboro, you normally get the ILS Rwy 06 circle-to-land Rwy 01 pylon-around-the-towers approach or the marginal weather VOR A overhead I-think-I still-see-the-runway-no-that's 24 circle to Rwy 19 approach. If in addition to the wx being bad it is also dark, the likelihood of getting one of these two approaches increases to near 100%.

GV

 

[NJA Capt]

I have never flown into TEB - although I have seen it from the air. What is the primary delay issue? Is it TEB's proximity to EWR and the resulting flow problem? Is it too many Gulfstreams and Globals trying to leave/arrive at the same time? Is it poor local ATC? Are these problems also experienced at HPN and Morristown - or is it just a local (EWR) issue?

It is not unusual to have 1-2 hour delays prior to engine start and another 1:00+ on the taxiway waiting for departure. EWR is the controlling agency, but it has to be coordinated with JFK, LGA and EWR arrv/departures. I'll give them this though. Not many major airports could beat the efficiency of TEB arrivals on the VOR A with TEB5 departures. That is a bunch of planes using a very small bit of airspace!

Personal soapbox:
In my opinion, if NY ARTCC would take advantage of the speed and climbing ability of most business jets they wouldn't have so many aircraft in their airspace at the same time. Let us get the heck out of town. Currently, most GA jets can be at FL410 in less than :20 minutes. Instead, we are lined up behind airliners that take :30 min to get to FL300. It can make a trans-con a little concerning when they leave you at 8000' for the first 150 nm.
Case in point: Last week we thought we had it made when we were cleared straight to 15000. Then they gave us (2) 360 degree turns so 4 airliners could get by (who were already behind us). I guess they wanted to see us pass them twice.


How 'bout this NPRM?
FAR 91.EIEIO(a) No Regional jet aircraft allowed above FL350, unless cruise portion of flight is longer than 2:00 hours.

FAR 91.EIEIO(b)No transport category aircraft (airliners) allowed above FL390 unless cruise portion of flight is longer than 2:30 hours.

FAR 91.EIEIO(c)Stop complaining about us going slow on approach....you should have been going faster in cruise.

Just kidding around guys

 

[Timebuilder]

At Teterboro, you normally get the ILS Rwy 06 circle-to-land Rwy 01 pylon-around-the-towers approach or the marginal weather VOR A overhead I-think-I still-see-the-runway-no-that's 24 circle to Rwy 19 approach.

HA!! I see you have flown that approach!

I'll never forget when I was first vectored to the north, and was warned to make my turn NORTH of the ABC television towers. I didn't see them at first, and when I did I said something like "holy cow".

I'm glad they don't download thse CVR recordings.