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TEB Crews making ASRS'es of themselves

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Texasskicker

Flexjet and Dang proud
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Posts
163
Teterboro pilots get told: Pay attention!
Sunday, April 17, 2005

By SHANNON D. HARRINGTON
STAFF WRITER



At least 30 jets departing Teterboro Airport last year strayed from flight paths intended to keep them from colliding with jets arriving at Newark Liberty International Airport and other aircraft, federal aviation reports show.

The flight path deviations show pilots leaving assigned altitudes or headings after being distracted or fatigued, misreading departure procedures or misunderstanding air traffic controller instructions. The data cover the first eight months of 2004 and are the most recent available.

"I was taking a peek at the Manhattan skyline," the pilot of a Challenger business jet acknowledged in a safety report last May after he climbed 250 feet too high. "Pay attention and save sightseeing for later," the pilot said in a report to the federal Aviation Safety Reporting System, run by NASA.

The numbers shed further light on a problem identified by the Federal Aviation Administration last month at the busy general aviation airport.

In a nationwide e-mail to pilots using Teterboro, the FAA said that too many were overshooting assigned takeoff altitudes, and the agency warned them to pay closer attention to departure procedures.

"There are specific rules of the road," said FAA spokesman Jim Peters, noting that two pilots were cited for altitude deviations in 2004 and three so far in 2005. "If they deviate from those rules, they're not in compliance."

The NASA program tracks aviation incidents and makes the data available on the Internet. Pilots are encouraged to report their mistakes, and they are granted anonymity and immunity from FAA enforcement actions.

Pilots are protected so the FAA can identify problems before they become accidents.

"The stress is safety, not punishment," said J.P. Tristani, a flight instructor and retired Eastern Airlines pilot from Ramsey. "They're more interested in correcting what is wrong."

In most cases, a few hundred feet off the flight path isn't going to put a jet on an immediate collision course with another aircraft. Pilots and aviation experts say there is enough padding built into the air traffic system to absorb minor pilot errors.

But in the world's busiest airspace, where upward of 40 jets could be cruising the air within a 20-mile radius at any given time, close attention to flight patterns becomes much more critical, aviation experts say.

Teterboro had 202,000 takeoffs and landings in 2004. The three commercial airports in the region logged a combined 1.1 million flights.

"The problem with Teterboro is that it's within 20 miles of three major airports," Tristani said. "Those particular large airports - JFK, La Guardia and Newark - have almost preferential departure routes, whereas Teterboro is squeezed in. There must be far more awareness in Teterboro."

The main problem, aviation safety reports show, has been at Teterboro's Runway 24, where jets take off heading southwest, crisscrossing a Newark Liberty arrival route.

Planes departing Runway 24 are instructed to maintain an altitude of 1,500 feet before making a sharp right turn to avoid the Newark flight path, where jets could be descending from around 3,000 feet.

Too many errors in that hot spot, aviation experts say, and you have a recipe for disaster.

"It's not ever one thing that causes one demise," said Brian Alexander, a pilot and aviation attorney who has represented the victims of aircraft accidents. "Most of the time, particularly when you're talking about midair [collisions], it's always a series of events that come together. [With flight path deviations], you've added another human factor element to the chain of events that heightens the likelihood of a tragedy."

That seems to have been the case for a crew of a twin-jet Cessna Citation Bravo making its final flight of a long day in January 2004.

Shortly after taking off from Runway 24, according to a safety report filed by the captain, the crew realized they had climbed to 1,900 feet, 400 feet too high. They started to descend, the pilot said, but lagged in making the right turn.

Before they knew what was happening, the plane's collision avoidance system activated, alerting them to a Newark-bound airliner about two miles away - too close for comfort with jets traveling hundreds of miles per hour.

In the report, crew members blamed the incident on a series of mistakes.

A cockpit altitude setting was incorrectly programmed by 3,500 feet. And while descending, the pilot acknowledged that the crew was taking the descent and turn slow to keep the flight smooth and passengers happy.

Crew members also said they were somewhat rushed during flight preparation.

Rushing through preflight checks seemed to be a common theme throughout the pilots' reports.

The captain of a twin-engine corporate jet who climbed to 2,000 feet on a takeoff last August admitted to simply glancing at the departure instructions before takeoff.

"Our passenger had shown up 20 minutes early, so we were in a little hurry to get things done and get going," the pilot said.

Another pilot said their crew breezed through flight preparation after being pressured by an air traffic controller to depart.

Other crews blamed miscommunication, faulty altimeter settings or simply inexperience for missing their mark.

The captain of a Beechjet 400 that departed Teterboro last April said flight crew mistakes in setting the plane's altitude gauge caused readings to be off by 1,000 feet.

A month later, an air carrier captain blamed inexperience and miscommunication. "I feel intimidated when flying in New York airspace," the captain said in a report.

The large number of reported flight path deviations was a little unsettling to homeowners and airport neighbors.

"It's creating a very dangerous situation," said Carol Skiba, a Hasbrouck Heights councilwoman and member of a group trying to pressure the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to scale back operations at Teterboro. "When will the over-intensification of this airport stop? When people die?"

FAA and the Port Authority officials say they are doing all they can to address the issue.

In addition to the FAA's e-mail alert, which went to more than 155,000 pilots and airport users, the Port Authority has held forums to discuss the high number of reported pilot errors. Posters cautioning pilots are being taped up in the flight operations briefing room. And new flight operators are being given orientation packages.

"Communication is the key, and making everyone aware of the importance of this issue is critical," said Port Authority spokesman Tony Ciavolella.

Some pilots calling into the reporting system have complained that the departure procedures are too difficult to read, with instructions blended together.

"When you look at [La Guardia's departure procedures], they separate each set of instructions with a line," one flight captain said after reporting an altitude overshoot. "When you add in a dark cockpit and being in a hurry, it can lead to confusion."

Peters, the FAA spokesman, said the agency should, perhaps, look into whether departure procedure charts need to be made easier to read. But the burden is still on the pilots to understand the instructions, he said.

"It's the pilots' responsibility to fly the procedure, period," Peters said.

_____________________________________

ENGAGE BRAIN before 1. Departing TEB, and 2. Completing a NASA form!

Tx.
 
Oh for God's sake, why don't you post this on the Crashpad and Flight Attendants forum too, just so everyone sees it?
 
Judging by your response....

LXJ31 said:
Oh for God's sake, why don't you post this on the Crashpad and Flight Attendants forum too, just so everyone sees it?

Judging by your response, LXJ31, you must be one of the crews sightseeing the NY skyline while you should have been flying your jet.

Yes, everyone should see this. 1. read and follow the (*&^&^$ procedures and 2. When filing a NASA form, watch your words. Dont make us all look like unprofessional slackers.

This NASA ASRS information is very public. Why give the foes of TEB more ammo to use?

Fly safe, use proven procedures and common sense people!
 
You're the one who spammed it onto another forum "accidentally." I get it; since I'm the mean guy who brought that to your attention, I must suck as a pilot. Logical.

If they scale back operations at Teterboro, I'm going to try to get the local interstate nearby to be used only during daylight hours because its noisy at night and people die in car accidents because, you know, its so dangerous. Did you know that drivers regularly break the rules on the highway? Yes, they do, they speed, drive haphazardly, make unsafe lane changes...I've heard that a few are even drunk at the time they are using the highway! Its a disaster waiting to happen, it needs to be scaled back. How many people have to die before that freeway gets shut down?
 
More print media circus

FAA working on clearer chart for Teterboro pilots
Thursday, April 21, 2005

By SHANNON D. HARRINGTON
STAFF WRITER



Federal aviation officials are looking to make departure instructions for pilots leaving Teterboro Airport easier to read.

The move is in response to a flurry of reports from pilots admitting they veered from flight paths intended to keep them from colliding with jets and other planes headed to Newark Liberty International Airport.

The Federal Aviation Administration is working with the makers of Jeppesen Airway Manuals to create a new chart with a "clearer depiction" of the altitudes and route that pilots departing Teterboro must follow, said FAA spokesman Jim Peters.

The agency first warned pilots about the flight-path deviations last month by sending an e-mail to more than 155,000 pilots and others to pay attention to departure instructions. And posters have been put up as a reminder to pilots.

But one state lawmaker said this week that the response isn't enough and that the FAA needs to get tougher on pilots using Teterboro, where more than 200,000 takeoffs and landings were logged last year.

The Record reported Sunday that during the first eight months of 2004, more than 30 pilots departing Teterboro filed reports to a NASA-run safety initiative saying that they strayed from their assigned flight paths. The pilots blamed a litany of reasons for their errors - fatigue, miscommunication, carelessness or being distracted. One pilot said he strayed 250 feet off course after sneaking a peek at the Manhattan skyline.

Pilots are encouraged to report their mistakes to the NASA-run Aviation Safety Reporting System because they can avoid sanctions from the FAA, although violations are noted on their records. Filing a report allows pilots to avoid a sanction one time every five years.

The FAA issued two violations to pilots who deviated from their assigned altitudes in 2004.

"It's absurd that the FAA is not sanctioning these violators," said state Sen. Paul Sarlo, D-Wood-Ridge, who sent a letter Tuesday to U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. "If somebody |is a violator and violates the altitude and takeoff provisions, they should not be allowed to land or take off from Teterboro Airport."

_______________________________________________

I hope they dont know how to search the ASRS database. IF you go there and search for all TEB ASRS reports, you'll find more srewups than yall can imagine.

WWW.nasdac.faa.gov and do some clickin'.

Tx.
 
Just Great

Fantastic. Now the media can access and reprint ASRS reports. I'm sure this will shed a positive light on GA!
 
This is why I make the point.

2000flyer said:
Fantastic. Now the media can access and reprint ASRS reports. I'm sure this will shed a positive light on GA!

Lookit, NASA forms should be submitted if yall did something wrong that might result in an enforcemnt action. You can submit as many as you want, but can only use it as a "get out of the FSDO free" card once in 5 years should an action be brought against you.

My suggestion: File 'em but dont make yourself look like a dummy in the process. "I missed up on the TEB 5 departure cause I was lookin' out the window at the skyline" would be an example of poorly chosen words. Think like a lawyer when yall complete these forms, cause anyone and everyone can look at them and see whatcha did.

Tx.
 

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