TaxiJet

[Dangerkitty]

Let the nay-sayers toss their pennies into the conversation, they're the same folks who live paycheck to paycheck, depend on their J.O.B., have no financial plan, and no long-term vision of anything. You have airlines uniforms hanging up in your closet and have learned your lesson. They haven't and either will, or never will. In either case they'll continue to shoot from the hip on issues they neglect to investigate in depth. It's easy, fun, and creates drama on the board.

Painting with a pretty broad brush there, dont ya think?

 

[AZ Typed]

Painting with a pretty broad brush there, dont ya think?

Well, that's the truth. What's your point? I'm missing it?

AZT

 

[Dangerkitty]

Well, that's the truth. What's your point? I'm missing it?

AZT

Well I really dont believe that this whole Taxijet thing will work. I just think that the logistics are too complicated and regulations not flexible enough. So I guess you can label me as a naysayer. HOWEVER:

Let the nay-sayers toss their pennies into the conversation, they're the same folks who live paycheck to paycheck

Nope not me. I live below my means and have 6 months of my six figure salary tucked away in my emergency fund.

depend on their J.O.B., have no financial plan, and no long-term vision of anything. You have airlines uniforms hanging up in your closet and have learned your lesson. They haven't and either will, or never will. In either case they'll continue to shoot from the hip on issues they neglect to investigate in depth. It's easy, fun, and creates drama on the board.

I dont have a J.O.B. I have 2 seperate careers. One flying for a Fortune 500 company and the other working in the Insurance and Financial Planning fields. So I really dont have to depend on either. Being that I work in the Financial field as a CFP and insurance agent I also have a very well thought out Financial Plan.

I also have two pilot uniforms hanging in my closet from two seperate airlines. A Major airline as well as a large Regional. So whatever lessons he has learned I am sure I have been exposed to them just as well. (When it comes to that however I am really not too sure I know what you are talking about.)

As far as shooting from the hip I see it a little differently. I call is calling a Spade a Spade. I dont think this whole Taxijet will work however I would love to be proved wrong. I agree that taking chances and risks is what makes America work and thrive. I just dont think that with the FAA keeping a tight grip on anything Part 135 related and the profit margins being almost nil to none that much money can be made from this endeavor.

Just becuase I am a naysayer doesn't mean I dont have any depth or I want to create drama. I have an opinion and have chosen to state it easy as that. I have looked into this whole Taxijet thing and really dont think it will work. Simple as that.

So when I state you are painting with a pretty broad brush I am telling you that I have looked into this alot more than you think. And just becuase I am a naysayer doesn't mean that I dont have my $hit together.

 

[Taxijet]

AZT:

Thank you for your encouraging words.

I realize that what I propose is a huge investment and I want to be sure it has every chance of success. That is one reason I am responding to this thread. So I can learn from pilots where the problems lie. So I can concentrate on those problem areas while building the web site and supporting programs and minimize the risk.

I will do my best to make this a win-win-win for everyone involved.


Dangerkitty:

With six to ten partners working together to operate one aircraft there will always be four to eight partners on the ground. Any of them will be able to help with operational aspects of their operation. They will have state of the art software, hand held computing devices and high-speed communications that have never before been available. With that sort of support the logistics will not be too complicated.

We all know the regulations for air charter are strict and inflexible but the FAA has interest in helping make the air taxi business model work. Why would they spend tens of millions of dollars a year on the Small Aircraft Transportation System (SATS) and then deny reasonable use of it? I believe the FAA will work with pilots who wish to pursue this type of service.

If I believed the profit margins were almost nil to none I would certainly not propose that anybody risk huge investments to attain them. So here I definitely disagree with your opinion of the possible payback of the investment. I appreciate that you have taken the time to look into my idea and would greatly appreciate any specific comments as to what part of my plan you feel is flawed. That is the sort of input I covet from this message board. I hope to use your input, and that of other pilots, to make adjustments to the plan early in its development.

Thank you for your comments,

Roger Burton
CEO-Taxijet
www.Taxijet.com

 

[Dangerkitty]

Dangerkitty:

With six to ten partners working together to operate one aircraft there will always be four to eight partners on the ground. Any of them will be able to help with operational aspects of their operation. They will have state of the art software, hand held computing devices and high-speed communications that have never before been available. With that sort of support the logistics will not be too complicated.

We all know the regulations for air charter are strict and inflexible but the FAA has interest in helping make the air taxi business model work. Why would they spend tens of millions of dollars a year on the Small Aircraft Transportation System (SATS) and then deny reasonable use of it? I believe the FAA will work with pilots who wish to pursue this type of service.

If I believed the profit margins were almost nil to none I would certainly not propose that anybody risk huge investments to attain them. So here I definitely disagree with your opinion of the possible payback of the investment. I appreciate that you have taken the time to look into my idea and would greatly appreciate any specific comments as to what part of my plan you feel is flawed. That is the sort of input I covet from this message board. I hope to use your input, and that of other pilots, to make adjustments to the plan early in its development.

Thank you for your comments,

Roger Burton
CEO-Taxijet
www.Taxijet.com

Mr. Burton,

Let me provide an example.

Let's say a Taxijet pilot gets a call to fly from his homebase of DFW to ATL. He flies three folks to ATL. At this point he has a few choices to make. What if he doesn't have any more flights scheduled for that day. What does he do? Pay for a hotel (on his own dime) and hope he gets a call in the morning? Or fly back to DFW (on his own dime) so that he or one of his partners can hope to take out the plane for another trip. Either way any revenue that he just brought in could be potentially wiped out if there is some sort of break in the chain.

What if the pilot makes it all the way to say the Northeast but has to be home the next day for an important family function. In my opinion he might as well have never taken the trip becuase the flight back will eat up all the profit he made and then some. Unless of course he can someway find a group of folks that want to go to Dallas at the same time he is leaving and that he can accomodate them.

What about training? Are these pilots going to have to come up with thousands of dollars each year to subsidize their initial and recurrent training? How much is that going to cost the pilot? I know that you can pass that along to the customer but it might get to the point that the cost is just to high for most pilots to justify. Add to that all the Part 135 hoops the Feds want you to jump through and I just dont see it all that appealing to the average professional pilot.

From my brief time flying for a Part 135 Charter operator (who was quite big and did ALOT of flying for Sentient, Netjets, Flexjet et al.) we played a guessing game 80% of the time. Should we deadhead back to our homebase on our on dime to get back into position or grab a hotel and hope someone needs a flight? I can't tell you how many days I spent skiing in Aspen while my company prayed that some big shot would need a flight out of there ASAP. When it didn't happen I would have had 3-4 great days on the slopes and my company would have a huge hotel room bill that was all for naught.

I really dont think that Taxijet will be all that different.

If there is someway you can find yourself around that then more power to you. I just don't see how you can make this work. Doesn't matter how many communication gizmos and pilots you have. The exposure to the pilot is just way too great and after a few of them fly trips for a huge loss I think the idea will not be as exciting to whoever signs up.

For the record though I really hope it works for you and your company. I just have become quite cynical since my furlough from American Airlines. I have been promised the world by every Charter Operator that I have interviewed with. Of the three Charter Operators that I interviewed with 2 never got off the ground (each owner told me that they were well financed and would dominate their areas of operation) and the third is not exactly in the best financial shape.

Those are just a few of my concerns. I wish I cold have typed it up a little more clear but I have been in the office all day with my other career and am quite tired of sitting in front of the computer.

I look forward to your response.

 

[Taxijet]

Dangerkitty,

Thank you for expressing your thoughts, even after a long day at work. I'm sure that many other pilots have similar questions so this gives me a good opportunity to address common concerns by addressing your specific scenario based problems.

DFW to ATL is 635 miles – I’ll round it off to 600nm leg length. For this problem let’s assume $3.70 per gal fuel cost and no winds

Comparisons:

Type acft KingAirC90B Learjet 60 Eclipse 500

Purchase Price $2.76 mil $12.5 mil $1.5 mil

Avg TAS 228 kts 424 kts 325 kts

Flight time 2+38 1+25 1+51

Direct cost/leg $1,175 $1,574 $757

Direct cost/nm $1.96 $2.62 $1.26


With these costs you could charge a passenger much less if you were operating an Eclipse while the service you provide is essentially the same, assuming you were transporting small groups of passengers. With the decreased operating expense fares will be lower so more passengers will be compelled to take the flights. www.Taxijet.com will be set up to provide a clearinghouse of empty legs. SATS will make flights more efficient. Advanced avionics will make the aircraft easier to fly and therefore safer. Single pilot operation will increase efficiency tremendously once the flying public overcomes their fears. The need for safety is paramount if the air taxi business model is to succeed this is why I appeal to high time pilots to pursue the venture.

The big question is how much will a passenger pay to ride in an Eclipse? Take your best estimate of that price and subtract the operating expenses (which are not all included in the list above) multiply by the utilization and you will have the profit (or loss). My estimate is that the target passenger will pay $6.10 per nm to book an Eclipse 500. My estimate of total costs to operate an Eclipse 500 will be about $3.08 per nm. My estimate of reasonable utilization of equipment is 70% full fare, 10% at cost and 20% empty legs. Using these estimates the total profit will be $1.48 per nm.

Even with a utilization rate of 50% full fare and 50% empty you will still make a profit of $0.09 per nm. This is after paying the pilots. Check out my Air Taxi Cost Analysis spread sheet, on the research page, to see how I came to these conclusions.
If you find something I left out or an estimate out of whack, or a math error please point it out to me.

Family functions are important to the individual, not so important to a big company. If your company is comprised of five of your close friends they will fill in for you that day and you won’t have to go on the flight at all. Or maybe the plane sits on the tarmac that day and you fly it next weekend to make up for it. No big, it’s your plane.

I’ll go one further. What if you have a family reunion in Fresno on some particular weekend when you are scheduled to fly. You have a trip to take two business men from DFW to Sacramento that Friday and a flight taking one business man out of Salt Lake to DFW on Sunday afternoon. You could bring your wife along on the trip, spend all day Saturday at the reunion and get paid for the vacation. Try doing that with somebody else’s plane.

Our concept for a bidding process will allow you to pick up those two business flights. You can bid 20% or 40% below your normal fare because you are benefiting personally. The pilot’s personal schedules are interwoven into the bidding process and they orchestrate their own schedules.

Cost of training is included in the Cost Analysis spread sheet.

The internet will connect the pilot to the customer so you could be online trolling for paying passengers while you are on the ski slopes. If you find a passenger request going where you need to go all you have to do is under bid everybody else and the fare is yours. So maybe all you get out of it is the cost of the flight and no profit for that leg – but you didn’t lose money either. What’s great about this is that the other operators who bid full fare (and lost to you) are still available, in their home base, for another paying passenger. Since there will be thousands of vlj’s flying air taxi there will be more passengers flying and more chance you will find someone going your way.

What is different this time is the technology. Taxijet is right in the middle of the technology and I am right in the middle of Taxijet. Get it? Tax-I-jet? get it? I know it's corney but I had to use it somewhere.

Thanks for your good wishes, and for your input.

Roger Burton
CEO-Taxijet
www.Taxijet.com

Info for KingAir and Lear were from the 2005 Operations planning guide Business & Commercial Aviation magazine – Aug 2005. Info for the Eclipse is derived from Eclipse Aviation performance guarantees. (most of the guarantees are +/-5%).

 

[leartwenty4]

DFW to ATL is 635 miles – I’ll round it off to 600nm leg length. For this problem let’s assume $3.70 per gal fuel cost and no winds

My estimate is that the target passenger will pay $6.10 per nm to book an Eclipse 500. My estimate of total costs to operate an Eclipse 500 will be about $3.08 per nm. My estimate of reasonable utilization of equipment is 70% full fare, 10% at cost and 20% empty legs. Using these estimates the total profit will be $1.48 per nm.

.

WOW! I know 30 series lear operators with large fleets that charge $3.00-$4.00 a sm regularly. The $4.00 would probably be with a fuel surcharge and associated fees covered! For a bigger and faster aircraft. (Never thought I would say that a lear is bigger than another biz jet!) leartwenty4

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Advanced avionics will make the aircraft easier to fly and therefore safer. Single pilot operation will increase efficiency tremendously once the flying public overcomes their fears.

Interesting. Explain how the very HIGH time test pilot was able to forget to put the landing gear down and belly one of those 'advanced' new airplanes on to the runway.

The experienced pilots aren't going to want to take a low wage, fly single pilot and have to cram themselves into a VLJ. So, you are going to have beginner jet pilots flying these things around and there are going to be problems. If these problems surface in the infancy of your program, it will be its untimely death. The general public will have no huge problem with some rich doctors and lawyers running their personal VLJ into a mountain, but if an Air Taxi service does it. Wow. Big, bad press. End of Taxi Jet.

Hope it don't.

Ace

 

[Taxijet]

Leartwenty4:

I don't have cost figures for a Lear 30 but a Lear 40 costs $8 mil and has a direct operating cost of $2.38/ nm for a 600 nm trip. If they are charging $4 per mile then they have only $1.62/mile left to pay insurance, maintenance software programs, misc services, Mid-life/hot section inspections, Engine overhaul, paint, interior refurbishment, upgrades, personnel costs, training costs and facilities costs. I seriously doubt any company can sustain the pricing you quoted. Perhaps unreasonable expectations are why so many charter operators have gone out of business.

By the way, my cost figures are averages. Some fares may be as high as $8/mile while others dip below my $6.10/ mile target figure.

Figures were obtained from Business & Commercial Aviation magazine, August 2005, page 99.



Ace-of-the-base:

Stupidity! I hope they get their act together in the Eclipse flight department or they will destroy the great work their manufacturing department has done.

An air taxi pilot flying single pilot in an Eclipse can effectively pay himself the normal captain pay and FO pay and still give the passenger more service (an extra seat and 200lbs extra useful load). With four other partners and an initial investment of $170,413 he could be making $176,463 per year if the average fare is $6.10 / nm. If he drops his average fare to $5/nm he will make $107,633. This is while he flies 136 eight flight hour days per year and makes it home most nights. Also realize that high time mentor pilots will be in demand by doctors and lawyers learning to fly these jets. Hopefully these mentor pilots will keep the doctors and lawyers alive and the air taxi business model will thrive.

If there is a spate of accidents in air taxis people will not overcome their fear of flying quickly and it will take longer for the business model to succeed. That is why the Eclipse has partnered with United Airlines to provide top rate pilot training. Anyone who can't pass the test will not be allowed to fly the aircraft. Eclipse will refund their deposit. That is why I'm appealing to seasoned pilots to be a part of this new revolution. Don't leave it all up to the likes of DayJet and Pogo to hire new pilots for peanuts and keep the big profits for themselves.

Other VLJ manufacturers are also concerned about safety and plan to provide training through reputable companies.


To be realistic I think it will take more than one or two air taxi accidents to stop the revolution.

Roger Burton
CEO-Taxijet
www.Taxijet.com

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

This is while he flies 136 eight flight hour days per year and makes it home most nights.

No offense, but your numbers seem a bit out of whack. I know you are trying to promote your idea, but most of us on this board have a lot of experience when it comes to aircraft utilization. To think that you can average 136 eight hour days is quite bold. How many revenue hours are you using per year for your analysis?

Ace

 

[leartwenty4]

Leartwenty4:

I don't have cost figures for a Lear 30 but a Lear 40 costs $8 mil and has a direct operating cost of $2.38/ nm for a 600 nm trip. If they are charging $4 per mile then they have only $1.62/mile left to pay insurance, maintenance software programs, misc services, Mid-life/hot section inspections, Engine overhaul, paint, interior refurbishment, upgrades, personnel costs, training costs and facilities costs. I seriously doubt any company can sustain the pricing you quoted. Perhaps unreasonable expectations are why so many charter operators have gone out of business.

By the way, my cost figures are averages. Some fares may be as high as $8/mile while others dip below my $6.10/ mile target figure.

Figures were obtained from Business & Commercial Aviation magazine, August 2005, page 99.

try 1-2 mil for a lear 35-36. Probably less if you have the cash when a deal comes along. Probably burns more gas than an eclipse, but it flys faster too.-leartwenty4

 

[Taxijet]

Ace-of-the-base:

I do not take offense. Thank you for your input. One reason I am posting on this web site is to test my concept in the fires of professional pilot's constructive criticism. I want to know if something is wrong with this plan.

It is not my intention to deceive anyone to promote my plan. I am promoting the plan because I truly believe that pilots can benefit by getting involved in this opportunity.

I used 120 hours per month or 1440 per year on the airframe for my calculations. This may seem a bit high by todays standards but maintenance down time will be minimal in next generation aircraft (says Eclipse). Also the air taxi concept is that passengers will que up so the aircraft is only on the ground long enough to pick up the next fare and go. Charter has traditionally been only for the elite who could afford to rent the aircraft for the whole trip. So the aircraft and pilots end up waiting long periods for their passengers.

Where are all these qued up passengers coming from? You may be asking. That is what I asked myself when I first started looking into this idea. I believe the answers lies in personal hand held computer devices, the internet, advancements in air traffic control and capabilities of next generation aircraft. I want to use www.Taxijet.com to provide an online que so the aircraft doesn't have to wait for the passenger and the passenger doesn't have to wait for the airplane but they both arrive at the same time ready to go.

To answer your question more specifically: My figures included the following assumptions
1) There are five partner pilots flying one airplane (two at a time)
2) The airplane flew 1440 hrs in the year
3) An eight hour day is defined as 3 flights of 1.41 hours duration with one hour on the ground per flight. (450nm per flight)

Multiply the aircraft time by the number of pilots flying (2) and you get the total number of flight hours to be divided among the pilots.
2 X 1440 = 2880.

Divide by the number of pilots (5) and you get 576 hrs per pilot per year.

Divide by flight duration (1.41hrs.) and you get 408.5 flights

Divide by the number of flights per 8 hour day(3) and you get 136 days of flying.

It may seem a bit aggressive to average three flights per eight hour day but pilots are very able when it comes to bidding for the best schedule they can get. Perhaps I should use an average of 1+30 on the ground per flight. What do you think?

There will be days when off duty pilots must assist the flying pilots with operational issues. Or you could have one or two non-pilot partners and let them do the boring stuff.


Leartwenty4:

You may plug the fuel consumption rates and maintenance costs of any aircraft, such as the Lear 30, into the air taxi analysis spread sheet (on the research page of www.Taxijet.com) to see what the operating costs would be. First download the spread sheet by clicking the link. Then select the variables page. Find the flight profile section and input the Lear performance figures in place of the Eclipse figures. Change the purchase price and the maintenance costs to those of a Lear 30 and you will have a pretty accurate estimate of expense and profit.

Adjust the average revenue per aircraft to bring the profit to the same as the Eclipse profit and you will see what you must charge to make that profit.

All changes must be made in the boxed squares.

I think you will be very surprised by what you find.

Roger Burton
www.Taxijet.com

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Roger,

Again, I've seen a ton of projections in my aviation life, and I've seen the reality that ensues. To average 1.41 hour flights, you need to balance all of the .5 .7 and .9 flights with some 3 and 4 hour legs. Unless you have defined routes, this is what you'll find. Second, you are giving no room in your averages for ANY downtime, breakage, weather, etc. What happens if you get fogged out and just can't pick up a 'fare'. It's going to happen quite a few times if you're flying that amount of legs. And what about the Holidays, summer vacation time, etc. Execs are not going to travel their normal routes. Third: What about scheduling conflicts. By the looks of your projections, you are targeting (and would need) businessmen to use these jets that consistently. What time of day do you think they'll want to fly? Every exec that commutes wants to leave between 7 and 9 in the AM and return at 5 or 6. If they're flying to business meetings, they leave at 8 or so, and return in the early afternoon. Who's going to fly between 9 and 2. No one. So 5 of your 8 hours are screwed.

Private jet passengers (even the new ones you're trying to breed) have constraints on their schedules that you or I can't change. They may be willing to budge an hour either way to get a cheaper ride, but they won't sit at home till 11am to go to work or a meeting. The whole point of a limo or a taxi is that it goes where YOU need to go, WHEN you need to go.

Ace

 

[JJGMADDOG]

Roger,


How is a .64 mach (vmo I might add) airplane flying in the mid 30's going to fit into the national airpace system; especially in a already congested Northeast-Florida route system?

 

[Dangerkitty]

Roger,

Again, I've seen a ton of projections in my aviation life, and I've seen the reality that ensues. To average 1.41 hour flights, you need to balance all of the .5 .7 and .9 flights with some 3 and 4 hour legs. Unless you have defined routes, this is what you'll find. Second, you are giving no room in your averages for ANY downtime, breakage, weather, etc. What happens if you get fogged out and just can't pick up a 'fare'. It's going to happen quite a few times if you're flying that amount of legs. And what about the Holidays, summer vacation time, etc. Execs are not going to travel their normal routes. Third: What about scheduling conflicts. By the looks of your projections, you are targeting (and would need) businessmen to use these jets that consistently. What time of day do you think they'll want to fly? Every exec that commutes wants to leave between 7 and 9 in the AM and return at 5 or 6. If they're flying to business meetings, they leave at 8 or so, and return in the early afternoon. Who's going to fly between 9 and 2. No one. So 5 of your 8 hours are screwed.

Private jet passengers (even the new ones you're trying to breed) have constraints on their schedules that you or I can't change. They may be willing to budge an hour either way to get a cheaper ride, but they won't sit at home till 11am to go to work or a meeting. The whole point of a limo or a taxi is that it goes where YOU need to go, WHEN you need to go.

Ace

Mr. Burton,

Ace basically summarized many of my concerns and put it on paper (or the message board) much better than I could.

Your numbers are very very very optimistic at best and leave in no fudge factor for anything. Put in the Part 135 Constraints and I just dont see how some of your numbers are going to work. Again I wish you the best but I have to say you have an uphill battle. If you can pull this off you have my utmost respect.

DK

 

[Taxijet]

“To average 1.41 hour flights, you need to balance all of the .5 .7 and .9 flights with some 3 and 4 hour legs.”

Correct – 1.41 hrs is an average.

“Second, you are giving no room in your averages for ANY downtime, breakage, weather, etc.”

There are 468,000 hours in each year. My figures assume that 1,440 of them are flight hours. The rest are down time. Some of that time could be due to breakage.

My figures (which are based on averages) assume a 70% full fare utilization rate, 10% “at cost” (cover expenses only) and 20% of the flight time is non-revenue producing. The 20% includes weather problems such as what you discussed. I think these numbers will be attainable by a professional crew that wisely uses all the assets available to them. What do you think the percentages should be? I'm glad this came up because I really would like to know what professional pilots think would be a reasonable percentage mix given all the variables.

“And what about the Holidays, summer vacation time, etc. Execs are not going to travel their normal routes… Who's going to fly between 9 and 2. No one.”

Go where the passengers are. Bidding online for flights you will not be limited to your main clients to the extent you are today. Do people stop driving between 9 and 2? I don’t. I live in Southern California and I usually try to time my commutes so I don’t get caught in traffic. Air Taxis will be flying a lower echelon executive than you are accustomed to. The target customer makes between $80 and $300 per hour. They pinch pennies a bit more and will be willing to have their meetings a few hours later if it will save them 20% on their travel expense. So bid 20% less than full fare between 9 and 2. If that doesn’t work, bid 30% less. If that doesn’t work try a blowout sale of 40% off. As long as your bottom line benefits, the discount is worth offering. Once the overall bottom line is diminished you have found the least amount you can charge for the flight. Remember that since you own the aircraft your salary is included in the bottom line for you personally, unlike in a larger corporation. You may ask yourself would I fly this flight for no pay? Maybe you would if your girlfriend lives in the destination city. Maybe not if that’s where your ex lives. Each flight will have a unique set of variables.

40% off the average full fare of $6.10/nm would be $3.66/nm. So a trip from ATL to DFW would cost the customer $2,324 one-way or $774 each for a group of three passengers. The Eclipse has four seats in back. Would this appeal to the traveling public enough to make him/her change the meeting time? I think so. And you would still make a little bit of money because the cost of the trip would be $2,032(including salary for two pilots).

Regards,

Roger Burton
www.Taxijet.com

 

[Taxijet]

Roger,


How is a .64 mach (vmo I might add) airplane flying in the mid 30's going to fit into the national airpace system; especially in a already congested Northeast-Florida route system?

The world is getting smaller. One day routes to the moon will be crowded too. Progress brings challenges of all sorts. VLJ's are coming and they deserve airspace too so let's work together for a smooth transition. The government will be spending a lot of money in the coming years to solve this and many other problems associated with next generation air travel. Let's hope they spend the money wisely.

Perhaps the answer on an individual basis would be to base your air taxi operation away from congested routes. Montana may be a good place for an air taxi service. Perhaps you could operate out of Montana in the summer and Arizona in the winter. Taxijet will provide a research function to help potential operators determine, among other things, where air taxi operations are viable. Your question is one of a number of factors that must be considered in the decision making process.

Thanks for the input.

Roger Burton
www.Taxijet.com

 

[JJGMADDOG]

Frankly I would not want to be geographically limited when looking into an aircraft purchase, especially for the intention of providing a service for revenue. Why limit yourself before your'e even established?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Air Taxis will be flying a lower echelon executive than you are accustomed to. The target customer makes between $80 and $300 per hour. They pinch pennies a bit more and will be willing to have their meetings a few hours later if it will save them 20% on their travel expense. So bid 20% less than full fare between 9 and 2. If that doesn’t work, bid 30% less. If that doesn’t work try a blowout sale of 40% off. As long as your bottom line benefits, the discount is worth offering. Once the overall bottom line is diminished you have found the least amount you can charge for the flight. Remember that since you own the aircraft your salary is included in the bottom line for you personally, unlike in a larger corporation. You may ask yourself would I fly this flight for no pay? Maybe you would if your girlfriend lives in the destination city. Maybe not if that’s where your ex lives. Each flight will have a unique set of variables.

Roger, I don't want to keep busting your b@lls, but this is all marketing stuff.

If you really want to market, instead of just kicking around a concept, then you'll have to answer this:

What is the possible downside. In other words, since you are not guaranteeing any level of flight hours (projections are cheap), what would it cost me and my 3 other friends if we get no flights.

Now, I don't want to mislead you. I have a job that already pays what you're saying the possible income would be in your scenario. My job has no risk. I know you're trying to paint a rosy picture, but most of us who have had to justify a corporate jet, know a bit about depreciation (book and actual), recapture, active and passive loss, etc. Your numbers might look good in a brochure, but they don't capture my interest. You are talking about taking a big financial risk to go into a market that does not yet exist, with a possible upside that is not earth-shattering.

Ace

 

[Taxijet]

Downside: If you don't fly the airplane at all, you would have a loss of about $124,000 initial investment (per partner) and $104,000 per partner per year, with five partners.

If you make over $140,000 per year and are happy with your secure job I would not expect you to get involved with what I have suggested.

A 45 year old furloughed airline pilot might be interested in checking it out.

My figures account for 7 years to depreciate the aircraft and assumes no residual value at the end of that time.

What have I said specifically that leads you to suggest that I'm trying to paint a rosy picture? Have I made any unrealistic assumptions or said anything untrue? If so I'd like to know what it was so I can correct the mistake.


Roger Burton

www.Taxijet.com