Taxiing a B200 (the 'lag') ... tricks?

[Snakum]

I realize most of you guys have already moved way past the King Air, and you probably consider it a very simple and easily-flown aircraft. And I think so. too. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so if I can hand-fly it thru all phases of flight it can't be too hard.

However ...

I'm having a bit of difficulty getting a handle on the taxi and the take-off roll. There is a VERY noticeable lag on the pedals so I find I'm using a lot of differential thrust to stay on the centerline and to turn smoothly (well ... smoothly for me ). And on take-off, our B200 power levers are not 'symetrical' and so you have to have the left level about 1/2" ahead of the right all the way up. Being so new at it, when I don't move them up perfectly, and then I have to fight the pedal lag, I look like I'm dodging small arms fire as I roll for take-off.

Any tricks, tips, or advice for making my B200 foot work as smooth as the B58s? Is it just a lack of experience, that comes up to speed with hours in the B200?

Always learning ...

Minhberg the Wiggley

 

[Bongo]

It will come with time, don't worry too much about it unless you're careening all over the runway and upending runway lights.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

When you move up to bigger and faster airplanes you will find that they all fly basically the same, the biggest transition is being able to think ahead of the plane. The 200 is basically a turbine powered Baron as far as flying it, the percieved lag that you feel is most likely due to the fact that your brain is still learning to look farther ahead of what the airplane is currently doing.

I am sure you have heard the term "behind the airplane". It happens to all of us as we transition to bigger and faster airplanes. Before long you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Just wait until you are trying to go back and rent a 172 or similar after flying jets for a while!!! Your butt is screaming that you are getting ready to fall out of the sky when you are still 40 knots above touchdown speed!

 

[prpjt]

During taxi, if you need to make a correction, try not to be too aggressive with the pedal. I see some people push the pedal and hold it once the plane starts correcting. Once the plane turns in the direction you want it start releasing a little pressure or you'll just S turn down the taxiway. Don' wait until you're all the way off centerline to do something. Be proactive.

On takeoff, it may not be just the split in the power levers. Next time watch the prop RPM as you advance the power. If they're not coming up at the same rate it can make for quite a show. If they are split try this. Hold the brakes and advance the power just enough to get the props to max RPM. Then release the brakes and add the rest of the power. You'll have to use agressive rudder at the beginning of the roll to counter the torque, but it's usually 1 push for a few seconds then you can go toward neutral.

 

[Snakum]

LOL! No ... I haven't taken out a light yet (knock on wood).

I really had no problems on the Baron, and was given the reins on my second flight. I still get behind when things get busy (I'm coming from a two-seat trainer with a top speed of 95kts ), but actually flying the B58 wasn't really much sweat. And merely flying the B200 really wasn't very hard, to be honest, after the first couple times, even my landings were OK pretty quickly (still a long way to go, though, for repeatable smoothness).

But the way the King Air taxis is radically different from anything I've ever flown. For example ... when I see it start to turn off centerline I can literally floor the pedal and there will be at least a five to ten second lag before it responds. I feel like I'm constantly going back and forth all the way to the floor, and if I don't get the engines spooled up exactly together on take-off (remember, the levers are not equal) I know it looks very sloppy as I fishtail my way to Vr. While I know it isn't a realistic expectation, I'm one of those Type-A perfectionists who wants to do everything perfectly right off the bat, and as my cockpit management skills start to come up to speed (getting less and less behind every flight) the simple process of taxiiing seems to be my stumbling block.

As you guys said ... I'm sure it'll catch up with time. It's just very frustrating to be able to accomplish the other mechanical tasks (the actual flying) so relatively quickly, and then have something as silly as taxi technique escape me. My Captain on the B200 is a knowledgeable, patient mentor and lets me make mistakes and learn on my own so long is safety is never compromised. I just thought I'd try to get a leg up on the taxi problems for next time.

Thanks all!

Minh

 

[Snakum]

Thanks for the tips prpjt. A question, if I may ...

You'll have to use agressive rudder at the beginning of the roll to counter the torque

I'm sure I've missed something important here, but are you saying the KA will try to move to one side when taking off in this manner? To what is the asymetrical torque due (I haven't noticed this before ... but I'm a NEWbie)? To which direction will it move (I want to be able to anticipate this)?

Thanks again!

Minh

 

[groundpointsix]

I've been doing the right seat thing in a B350 and early on had the same problems you mentioned. This is what my captain has taught me about taxiing/taking off/landing, and it's worked pretty well.


1) At all times look down past the end of the runway (or taxiway). You'll catch the fact that the nose is swinging far earlier than you will if you're looking at the stripes in front of you. You can get away with this is smaller airplanes but it helps immensely in those too.

2) Keep making constant small adjustments on the rudder pedals. Instead of seeing the nose drift left and then stomping on the right rudder, add a little bit of right, then a little bit of left to straighten it out and then a little more right. (This all happens much quicker than it took you to read the last sentence). Think of it as dancing on the rudder pedals.

3) On takeoff, if time permits, bring the power levers off the pitch stops before releasing the brakes. It helps to have the governors online before you start rolling. Eventually you'll get the feel for the airplane and you won't need to do this anymore, but early on it helps.

4) As far as the power levers go, that's just a multi-engine thing. You'll fly some twins where the power levers synch up almost perfectly and some where you've got a half inch difference. Don't pay attention to the physical location of the power levers and concentrate on what the guages say. Also, don't fixate on the guages-- just get it close and get your eyes back outside. The assymetical thrust probably isn't the reason for your fishtailing on takeoff so much as the rudder inputs you use to correct for it. (No offense) Try using the constant small adjustments I talked about above and you ought to be able to fix it.

 

[414Flyer]

What I did in a Cheyenne II, to keep from doing something similar because of the power levels being a bit off of one another, or from spool up lag, was not to just go from idle to takeoff power, but move them each up to about 400 or so pounds of torque with the brakes on and get each engine
equal in terms of torque.

Then I found I could from there I could let off the brakes and advance them without spoolup lag and it made it much easier to stay on the center of the runway, because until I did that, if I just tried to go from idle to high power, I did similar manuvers as you

 

[Lead Sled]

When you move up to bigger and faster airplanes you will find that they all fly basically the same, the biggest transition is being able to think ahead of the plane. The 200 is basically a turbine powered Baron as far as flying it, the percieved lag that you feel is most likely due to the fact that your brain is still learning to look farther ahead of what the airplane is currently doing.

I am sure you have heard the term "behind the airplane". It happens to all of us as we transition to bigger and faster airplanes. Before long you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Just wait until you are trying to go back and rent a 172 or similar after flying jets for a while!!! Your butt is screaming that you are getting ready to fall out of the sky when you are still 40 knots above touchdown speed!

So very true.

If you think a KA-200 is fun to taxi try a Turbo Commander or a 20 or 30 series Lear. We used to gather around to watch the new guys.

'Sled

 

[Snakum]

The assymetical thrust probably isn't the reason for your fishtailing on takeoff so much as the rudder inputs you use to correct for it. (No offense)

None taken. The assymetrical thrust was merely adding to my already quite problematic footwork. And thanks for all the info. That helps a great deal.

You guys are tops. If you ever get to GSO ... lunch is on me.


Minhberg the Unrated King Air Radio Hoe

 

[BE200Driver]

I find that while taxiing in the Beta range, I can manage just fine with small amounts of power lever change. If a fairly moderate turn is needed then I'll take the outboard (of the turn) lever back over the stop and around she comes. For tight turns same thing with just a toe tap on the inboard brake.

On the departure I like to bring the (split in ours too) levers up until I show 1900 on the props then brake release. Directional control with slight power lever tweaking and very minor toe taps.

Are you flying for the right or left side? I first started flying the B200 from the right and it was no wonder why it took some getting used to. Much easier when in the "proper" seat.

 

[BE200Driver]

Now the KA 300, that took a little more work. lol. Beast.

 

[Snakum]

Flying from the right in the B58 and B200, though I did get a left-side empty leg on the King Air recently (an absolute BLAST for a newbie/old fart). And yes ... the 'sight picture' was very funky from the right at first.

I get left-side in the Baron and on empties in the KA when I get the ratings finished up. I need to win the lottery.

Now the KA 300, that took a little more work. lol. Beast.

Is the KA300/350 much different in handling from the C90/B200?


Minh

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You guys are tops. If you ever get to GSO ... lunch is on me.


Minhberg the Unrated King Air Radio Hoe

Uh-Oh your in trouble now!!........I live close to GSO and have a big appetite!!!!!

 

[Snakum]

LOL! Anytime. Well ... anytime in the first few days after payday, at the end of the month. I'm generally broke by the 6th or 7th. After that it'd have to potted meat samiches.

Minh

 

[corpflunkie]

If you think the KA-200 is bad, try your hand at a MU2 with split power levers. It'll git yer attention real quick!! The KingAir will seem like child's play after that.

-

 

[BD King]

So very true.

If you think a KA-200 is fun to taxi try a Turbo Commander or a 20 or 30 series Lear. We used to gather around to watch the new guys.

'Sled

Took the words out of my mouth. I don't know about the Lears, but watching a guy in a Commander for the first time is a hoot.

www.bdkingpress.com

 

[Snakum]

Isn't a bit odd, though, that the Baron and the Seneca steer as tightly as a Skyhawk (or even better on take-off, as long as you keep the levers sync'd ... no SE torque), but other aircraft (Commander, MU2, et al) are like learning how to taxi all over again?

Is this a function of the steering mechanism ... the way the steering is actuated? Or is it due to the much increased power/torque that requires more attention to keeping the engines symetrical? Or a combination of both?

So much to learn ... so few brain cells left.

Minh the Clueless

 

[moxiepilot]

most of this has been mentioned, but i had the same problems for the first few hours in the king air. as for taxiing, small rudder corrections w/o differential thrust. jockying the thrust levers just gives you more to do.

take off i used to be all over the runway too, so no worries. it does come with experience, but the best suggestions i read were the dancing on the rudder pedals and looking ahead of the aircraft.

good luck my friend

 

[bigD]

Dunno about the King Air, but in the Cheyenne II, I'm in Beta all the time on the ground to avoid touching the brakes, and I can generally keep it straight with very small adjustments to the throttles. I barely have to work the rudder pedals at all. Like BE200Driver said, in a tighter turn, I just pull one out of beta and that's all there is to it.

As for takeoff - I do the same that 414Flyer does...power it up to 400 pounds on each side, release the brakes, and give it hell.