Talking with the PAX at a Frac.

[netjetwife]

netjetwife you are A HOOT! I tell ya, there's always entertainment somewhere on fltinfo.

I'm happy to help. Some of the NJ pilots tell me they read this board while they're sitting in FBOs or hotels--feeling bored.

Wolf, I'll add the same 2 cents to yours--fair is fair!

 

[Diesel]

all i've ever seen is the rampers get tips from the pax.

You know what i'm talking about. You load and unload the plane the ramper shuts the trunk lid and he gets the 100.

Go figure.

 

[xcrew]

GV.....our Ops Specs do not address the issue of tipping... .

What would Ops Specs have to do with tipping. The Feds don't care if you get tips. Seems to me it would be in a company policy manual, if anywhere.

 

[LXJ31]

all i've ever seen is the rampers get tips from the pax.

You know what i'm talking about. You load and unload the plane the ramper shuts the trunk lid and he gets the 100.

Go figure.

Man, if I had a dollar for every time thats happened....

 

[netjetwife]

all i've ever seen is the rampers get tips from the pax.

You know what i'm talking about. You load and unload the plane the ramper shuts the trunk lid and he gets the 100.

Go figure.

Although my husband has received some tips, he more often sees the same scenario you described, Diesel. You'd think the pax would have enough SA to realize who was doing the work. Yeah, Go Figure.

Seems to me that the company should stay out of it entirely. It's a private expression of appreciation from the pax to the flight crew. Of course, if the companies wanted to point out that their pilots were so badly paid that tips would be used to supplement the pilot's low wages, that'd be helpful. Instead, when the subject is addressed by the company (at least at NJA) the practice is discouraged. After all, they're anxious to perpetuate the myth that their pilots are all professionally compensated. They can do something about low wages. They just choose not to.

 

[buttercup]

Although my husband has received some tips, he more often sees the same scenario you described, Diesel. You'd think the pax would have enough SA to realize who was doing the work. Yeah, Go Figure.

Seems to me that the company should stay out of it entirely. It's a private expression of appreciation from the pax to the flight crew. Of course, if the companies wanted to point out that their pilots were so badly paid that tips would be used to supplement the pilot's low wages, that'd be helpful. Instead, when the subject is addressed by the company (at least at NJA) the practice is discouraged. After all, they're anxious to perpetuate the myth that their pilots are all professionally compensated. They can do something about low wages. They just choose not to.

Tell me about it. Just like when I flew RTS and his baggage compartment full of golf clubs and personal shiznit. We bust our asses, unload the bags, walk them over to the car and he whips out some crisps Benjamins and give em right to the lineguys right in front of our faces. It was no coincidence especially being during contract negotiations. How come these fuc*in line guys are always there when you are unloading the plane but never when you are loading it? I bet they don't get offended to get tips.

 

[Stealthh21]

Tell me about it. Just like when I flew RTS and his baggage compartment full of golf clubs and personal shiznit. We bust our asses, unload the bags, walk them over to the car and he whips out some crisps Benjamins and give em right to the lineguys right in front of our faces. It was no coincidence especially being during contract negotiations. How come these fuc*in line guys are always there when you are unloading the plane but never when you are loading it? I bet they don't get offended to get tips.

This is a whole different thread. I hate that. After they get their hundred dollars, they disappear. Line guys sometimes forget that WE are thier customers, our PAX are OUR customers.

stealthh

 

[netjetwife]

That was a good way to put it! I agree. They need to keep straight who's customer it is, and who's serving who. My husband tells me the pilots tip the line guys for helping them and servicing the plane. Wanna bet who makes more money? The line guy or an FO? And I have no doubt that RTS was being deliberately rude to the pilots....on second thought....maybe he was just showing his normal lack of respect for them, without even thinking about it. Wrong no matter which way it was. When I hear things like that, I'm glad I'm "just" a wife.. and not a pilot.

 

[GEXDriver]

...at two of my subsequent positions the company Ops Manuals have specifically prohibited the acceptance of gratuities...


GV

At our company, UT, the acceptance of gratuities is prohibited as well. I bet that those companies, like ours, were corporate flight departments.

 

[SeaSpray]

Originally Posted by GVFlyer
quote=GVFlyer]I could facetiously say... that I'm still doing what the military trained me to do. There are no F16s at NJA, so my husband works w/1108 for his challenge. I was in the military VIP community for many years with domestic and overseas postings. I served my final six years at Andrews AFB. When I was in a military uniform no senior officer, politician, or foreign dignitary would have dreamed of offering me a gratuity. Nor should they have as all additional duties were in your job description to begin with. I have never expected that to be any different in my civilian uniform. According to the etiquette experts, you should have. Your duties are clearly defined as a civilian pilot and are much more limited in scope compared to your role as a representative of the military.

NJW

NetJetsWife you are amazing! Here is a guy that's a career VIP pilot who finished his military service with six years at the most prestigious executive aviation organization on the planet and you're telling him he's doing his job wrong based on your vast personal experience in his field and something you read in an etiquette book that surely doesn't have a chapter on tipping your Gulfstream Captain and his crew. Not only is that condescending but it is also incredibly arrogant.


Who's going to try to tip a guy that making a quarter of a million bucks a year anyways?

SS

 

[gordon24]

all i've ever seen is the rampers get tips from the pax.

You know what i'm talking about. You load and unload the plane the ramper shuts the trunk lid and he gets the 100.

Go figure.

That, my friend, is the reason I quit tipping the rampers. That happens every darn time.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

There are no F16s at NJA, so my husband works w/1108 for his challenge.

NJW

So flying our little airplanes isn't challenging enough for Lieutenant Colonel Fighter Pilot so he has to work for the Teamsters to compensate. Attitudes like that show up as cause factors in NTSB Accident Reports. Sheesh!

 

[netjetwife]

Two of you are totally missing what I'm saying. My husband enjoys the flying and the challenge/variety at NJ. I thought it was fairly common knowledge that AF pilots are always assigned additional duties, as well. His work with 1108 fills that job challenge for him. The pilot I had responded to was pointing out that he was still doing the same type of flying that he'd done in the AF. My counter point was that it was impossible for my husband to do that. I don't think it even matters. Maybe he saw it as an experience issue?

Seaspray, in no way did I tell him how to do his job. Our discussion was one limited to his opinion on pilots being tipped, and the question of whether or not it was an acceptable practice. In the type of flying he had done, and was doing, he would not be one of the pilots to receive a tip. That doesn't mean that FOs on planes without FAs are in the same category. They perform personal services for their pax that make them eligible for tips. It is a fact that some pax recognize that and show their appreciation accordingly. I want frac pilots to know that they are completely within the bounds of society's rules when they accept the tips they have earned. It should be up to the pax, not the pilot.

 

[Guitar Guy]

So flying our little airplanes isn't challenging enough for Lieutenant Colonel Fighter Pilot so he has to work for the Teamsters to compensate. Attitudes like that show up as cause factors in NTSB Accident Reports. Sheesh!

NJW's husband doesn't have a cavelier attitude towards our collection of jets or towards their safe operation. And I think you would voice some appreciation for what he's done for our union if you knew who he is. He's put in a lot of hours helping to implement the new contract in a way that helps to benefit all of us.

 

[G100driver]

My boss used to throw us $100 everytime we landed. Drove me crazy. Sure I like money but I thought he paid us pretty well. I finally had to ask the CFO to get him to stop. It since has changed to, "you guys be sure and eat well tonight!"

I guess that mean's Morton's for the crew!! Never heard a complaint on the ol expense account! Much better!

 

[netjetwife]

I can see how in your situation that was a better way to be shown the boss's appreciation. The point is, he was doing it. Many frac pilots bust their butts and see little appreciation. I think most of them would rather have too much, rather than not enough. I'm pleased to hear that everything worked out well for you, G100driver. I'm a firm believer in speaking up and being proactive in solving problems.

 

[GVFlyer]

At our company, UT, the acceptance of gratuities is prohibited as well. I bet that those companies, like ours, were corporate flight departments.

Yep.

GV

 

[GVFlyer]

GV,

Your posts are usually an accurate and sane voice of reason on this board but this time (I can't believe I'm typing this) DO-82 is correct. Years ago, or so the story goes, we had a greybeard with your mindset on tips. He was offered a tip from an appreciative client and repeatedly refused the tip in such a disdainful and rude fashion that the offended owner went right up the chain of command. It wasn't long thereafter that the letter to which DO-82 refers went out.

My policy, and the policy of most of our flight crews is to graciously decline the first offer of a tip and then politely accept when offered again (which they invariably do). Although tips are rare in our operations, they do occur and usually from the same, well-known clients. Any tips are always shared amongst the entire crew although some pilots insist the flight attendant take the entire gratuity.

I consider myself a white-collar professional and will perform my duties to the best of my abilities regardless of the possibility of a gratuity. Some of our clients are happy to show their appreciation to the flight crews and I am not about to insult them or their gesture.

Thanks for the compliment and for sharing the NJI lore. I also have found times that I couldn't graciously refuse a tip, particularly at Gulfstream Aerospace where you certainly didn't want to antagonize someone to whom you were trying to sell a $47 million jet. In those cases I did as you suggested, I gave the tip to the flight attendant. She or he is my direct interface with my passengers and works for only a fraction of what the flight deck crew earns. When this situation occurred on a trip to Saint Maartens, one particularly classy FA used the tip money to take me, the FO and the FE to the Q club at the Maho Beach for drinks. Nice touch.








~

GV

 

[G100driver]

Thanks for the compliment and for sharing the NJI lore. I also have found times that I couldn't graciously refuse a tip, particularly at Gulfstream Aerospace where you certainly didn't want to antagonize someone to whom you were trying to sell a $47 million jet. In those cases I did as you suggested, I gave the tip to the flight attendant. She or he is my direct interface with my passengers and works for only a fraction of what the flight deck crew earns. When this situation occurred on a trip to Saint Maartens, one particularly classy FA used the tip money to take me, the FO and the FE to the Q club at the Maho Beach for drinks. Nice touch.
GV

I thought that was what the sales force was for?

Who is the FE at GA?

 

[GVFlyer]

I thought that was what the sales force was for?

At Gulfstream each of us was a part of the sales force and played a specific role in the sales effort. The sales exec is generally more interested in taking the principal for drinks and dinner, but that often becomes a command performance for the crew. On some trips there is no salesman on board. This was such a trip where we were only taking an Argentinian automaker on vacation.

Who is the FE at GA?

He or she is either a technician from Corporate Maintenance or a Field Rep. Field Reps generally remain with the aircraft after delivery and beyond the hand holding period during which the buyer has a Gulfstream factory pilot for crew training.

At Andrews AFB, the FE was generally a senior maintenance sergeant. There, the crew on the Gulfstream sometimes outnumbered the passengers. We flew with an AC, a second pilot, an FE, two stewards and sometimes a communications technician.

GV