Talking points from any post 911 Delta New Hires...

[120% Torque]

Mergers and intergration viewpoints are very subjective depending on where you sit in the stack. I'm just curious what Delta new hires see as the pros and cons (assuming there are no furloughs) from a merger with Northwest?

I'll kick things off:

Cons:

1. Relegated to Detroit in a DC9
2. Northwest guys coming into your current base for years to come stagnating your upward movement until enough retirements kick in to create movement again.
3. Slower movement than the alternative (Delta goes it alone and puts in a large aircraft order as part of the huge international expansion push already underway)
4. Bumped from your widebody to a narrowbody with lower pay.


Pros:

1. No matter how you slice it you are on the bottom and Northwest does bring some ealier retirements.
2. Some slight pay raises for given equipment (assuming you can still stay on that equipment)
3. Some equity in the new company (probably like $20K with the lionshare going to the guys with more years of service).

 

[Tanker Clown]

You forgot about who's gonna get furloughed when capacity is eliminated. I guess that would be on the con side. On the pro side, now you have a chance to fly the whale...in a couple of decades.

 

[120% Torque]

You forgot about who's gonna get furloughed when capacity is eliminated. I guess that would be on the con side. On the pro side, now you have a chance to fly the whale...in a couple of decades.

Please quit clogging these threads up. I asked for Delta new hires. Last I checked you were flying tankers in the military.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I don't understand why you guys keep talking about getting bumped out of your current equipment. Nobody over here is even remotely pushing for that. In fact, as far as I know, there is absolutely no precedent for that kind of thing. Now, as to what happens with future open positions, that's anybody's guess. However, I don't think you're in any danger of being bumped into the DC-9 in Detroit (although, I don't think it's so bad..... but to each his own).

As to your guys fears that Northwest's "mongol hordes" are just biting at the bit to invade your warm weather bases, I for one live in Atlanta and am planning to move to Minneapolis regardless of what happens. I guess my point is that the idea that Delta has superior bases is highly subjective at best and mindless assumption at worst.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Sorry 120% Torque. I'll try not inject any reality into your thread. The economy is on fire. Oil is going to drop like a rock. The CEO's won't cut capacity (i.e. pilots) when they merge. They'll just leave all the overlapping routes and take the loss.

I'm sure all is on the up and up. Especially for the guys on the bottom of the seniority list.

 

[General Lee]

How would you be relagated to the DC9s? The only way you could be bumped from your current equipment is through a displacement, and if we ever merged the only planes that would be going away sooner than later would be the DC9s and a very small 742 fleet. It is doubtful you would be thrown to the DC9 as it was going away.

As as side note, I was told by a Line check guy (yes, they have plenty of rumors and sometimes no credibility) that part of the plan MAY BE to replace the larger DC9s (the -40s and -50s) as they go away (within the next 2 years) one for one with used MD90s on the open market. (yes, I always bring that up, but maybe now it will be true) He said it would be a short course for any current DC9 driver and mechanic, and a pay raise. He said there are over 100 out there available, and that we intend to "gobble up" every one of them. If the NWA merger does not go through, I think we will still go after them anyway.

So, I doubt anyone currently flying at Delta would be relagated to the DC9.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ya buoy]

tanker clown is right, yes there will be domestic overlap cuts, however word is that the major ovelap exists on the RJ side and thats were the majority of the cuts will be. Makes sense, park the 50 seaters that duplicate efforts and dispatch with 10 open seats when rain is forecast. DAL management has been extremely vocal about not renewing 50 seat contracts. They also vocalize about the lack of a 100 seater they are comfortable with to fly ourselves.
As a new DALguy I guess the pros are that we will be extremely busy this summer/fall, increased new hire class sizes for the rest of the year, a convincing stand alone plan and the fact that at least the companies are "publicly" saying that they are concerned about the pilots well being if a merge is successful.

 

[737 Pylt]

Sorry 120% Torque. I'll try not inject any reality into your thread. The economy is on fire. Oil is going to drop like a rock. The CEO's won't cut capacity (i.e. pilots) when they merge. They'll just leave all the overlapping routes and take the loss.

I'm sure all is on the up and up. Especially for the guys on the bottom of the seniority list.

Isn't it about time for the colonel's evening cup of coffee, private?

737

 

[Tanker Clown]

Isn't it about time for the colonel's evening cup of coffee, private?

737

He doesn't drink coffee after 11 am. And I want you to know, that I appreciated it more when you used to call me Sarge.

Good one. Not very original though.

 

[737 Pylt]

He doesn't drink coffee after 11 am. And I want you to know, that I appreciated it more when you used to call me Sarge.

:laugh: :laugh:

Good one. Not very original though.

Anything to help!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted

 

[Superpilot92]

For a Delta new hire:

Cons:

• MD88, 737-800, 767, 765, 777 opportunities & progression - gone. With either plan you instantly lost the equivalent of 8 to 10 years' seniority. A 757 is a 13 year wait at NWA according to a friend in class there.
• Equivalent equipment is senior at NWA
• Pay based on either seniority scenario is a cut of 11% to as much as 40% using current contract values - if displaced
• Furlough fodder for NWA as their fleet is rationalized

Pros:

• Future growth - the airline will have the network and resources
• Future upgrade potential might be better due to NWA's smaller equipment which would be much less popular with the widebody international FO positions paying the same
• The effect of a merger would pretty much erase the harm of age 65. The NWA retirements start about 5 years earlier, then in 3 years the DAL retirements begin in larger numbers than the NWA retirements. For the NWA pilots the effect is greater advancement coming three years later.
• Equity stake (signing bonus?) should be distributed equitably. The biggest harm is to those at the bottom of the list. I expect an even distribution.
• Contract improvements (I've heard up to 50% for some NWA pilots over the term on some equipment)
• International negotiating leverage; World's largest pilot group
• Potential windfall for both pilot groups when the 100 to 130 seat jets hit the market. The new Delta would better be able to afford fleet renewal.
• Possible Asian base - if you're into that sort of thing

The effect of NWA's smaller, lower paying, obsolete fleet is huge for DAL new hires. If you are trying to break even on your transition from the military, or Regional IP/Capt. job, the break even point moved from three or four years to around 11 or 12. The new rates and any equity will of course change the numbers. Hopefully there will be no displacements.

757 just got awarded to someone whos been on property less than 6 months, so its not 13 years.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wow, what a difference a bid, or two, can make. Congratulations.

Really - it is good to read good news about NWA. The folks who have analyzed this deal say it is a good thing and the pilots will like it.

Again, the price of intransigence is irrelevance. A long term opportunity is getting up from the table and heading towards the door for all involved.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

As to your guys fears that Northwest's "mongol hordes" are just biting at the bit to invade your warm weather bases, I for one live in Atlanta and am planning to move to Minneapolis regardless of what happens. Iquote]

Gotta raise the flag that is covered in Cow poo.....

Who are you kidding?? Not gonna bid ATL?? C'mon!!

OK, i'll bite....Why are you going to move to Minneapolis??

 

[~~~^~~~]

OK, i'll bite....Why are you going to move to Minneapolis??

Ahh nothing like a plate of Lutefisk and a nice brisk walk in -15 degree weather to see a live taping of "A Prarie Home Companion." That Garrison Keillor is simply brilliant, why use 5 words when 37 will do?

"Some luck lies in not getting what you thought you wanted but getting what you have, which once you have got it you may be smart enough to see is what you would have wanted had you known." Garrison Keillor

Actually, if I lived in Minnisota, that is what I'd do, after I finished shovelling snow to move the car.

 

[~~~^~~~]

757 just got awarded to someone whos been on property less than 6 months, so its not 13 years.

Not according to your pilots on other threads. You, or he, either one know more than me, but what you wrote is disputed by your other pilots.

Eleven yrs at NWA and I cant hold any widebody reserve positon as a F/O.

Jun '08 pilot position awards. Most junior reserve.

ANC 747 F/O 11/96
SEA 330 F/O 05/96
MSP 474 F/O 11/96

 

[regionalcap]

Fins,
The part you qoted doesn't refer to a 757. The 757 is not a widebody.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You are correct. If merged, it would be a common category with the 767.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Gotta raise the flag that is covered in Cow poo.....

Who are you kidding?? Not gonna bid ATL?? C'mon!!

OK, i'll bite....Why are you going to move to Minneapolis??

Wife is from that part of the country and wants to move back. I hate Atlanta. Two pretty good reasons, I think.

 

[ExAF]

Me Too

As to your guys fears that Northwest's "mongol hordes" are just biting at the bit to invade your warm weather bases, I for one live in Atlanta and am planning to move to Minneapolis regardless of what happens. Iquote]

Gotta raise the flag that is covered in Cow poo.....

Who are you kidding?? Not gonna bid ATL?? C'mon!!

OK, i'll bite....Why are you going to move to Minneapolis??

Raise the flag all you want, but there are many (probably most) who will not bid ATL or any other southern tier base. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to live down south. I'm not slamming the south, so don't take this post that way. I grew up in the south (even further south than ATL). I loved it growing up. I thought we were nuts for moving to the great white north, but once we got here we loved it. After moving all over the US and even overseas, I have no desire to return to the heat and humidity. I'll take the cold winter, four seasons and overall high quality of life any day over the oppressive heat and humidity of MAR thru OCT in the south. We do have some heat and humidity here as well, but it is not nearly as oppressive and it's actually enjoyable for a short period of time. Look at the bright side...we don't have to mow our lawn from NOV to MAR. To each his own. The point is...I don't think you'll see the mass exodus to ATL you are worried about. Headhunters/recruiters for big business in the area say it is the hardest place to get people to move to and the hardest to get people to leave. I do have to admit, I REEEEEEEALY miss the southern Louisianna cooking and I've never had nor plan to have Lutefisk. Cheers...ExAF

 

[Rook]

1. Relegated to Detroit in a DC9

When did this become such a dreaded position? I would've traded my 6 years in DTW as an LCA at 9E for the same amount of seniority at NWA in said DC-9.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Wife is from that part of the country and wants to move back. I hate Atlanta. Two pretty good reasons, I think.

nuff said!!! I share your sentiments about the ATL....that's why I commute!!!

Bro' before Ho's in the 404 in 08 Yo!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Raise the flag all you want, but there are many (probably most) who will not bid ATL or any other southern tier base. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to live down south. I'm not slamming the south, so don't take this post that way. I grew up in the south (even further south than ATL). I loved it growing up. I thought we were nuts for moving to the great white north, but once we got here we loved it. After moving all over the US and even overseas, I have no desire to return to the heat and humidity. I'll take the cold winter, four seasons and overall high quality of life any day over the oppressive heat and humidity of MAR thru OCT in the south. We do have some heat and humidity here as well, but it is not nearly as oppressive and it's actually enjoyable for a short period of time. Look at the bright side...we don't have to mow our lawn from NOV to MAR. To each his own. The point is...I don't think you'll see the mass exodus to ATL you are worried about. Headhunters/recruiters for big business in the area say it is the hardest place to get people to move to and the hardest to get people to leave. I do have to admit, I REEEEEEEALY miss the southern Louisianna cooking and I've never had nor plan to have Lutefisk. Cheers...ExAF

Good reasons but when the almighty dollar comes knocking.....i.e. better pay than what's avail up north, you COULD commute!! That's all I'm saying....Hell, I got hired on the same day at Delta and Northwest.....it'll be interesting to see if I made the right decision!!! =)

 

[CitationLover]

....He said there are over 100 out there available, and that we intend to "gobble up" every one of them....

Only 114 were made, Delta has 16. There are less than 100 to gobble up.

 

[Kharma Police]

nuff said!!! I share your sentiments about the ATL....that's why I commute!!!

Bro' before Ho's in the 404 in 08 Yo!

You Delta guys need to play nice and make this merger happen. "Two great airlines, one great future."

 

[Gunfighter]

Pros:

1. No matter how you slice it you are on the bottom and Northwest does bring some ealier retirements.

This one belongs in the CONS. If DAL and NWA merge the DAL new hire is on the bottom for a long time. If they don't merge, the go it alone plan has them moving up in relative seniority as the company grows.

I'd rather be 7200 of 9000 two years from now than 11999 of 12,000.

 

[AlbieF15]

Raise the flag all you want, but there are many (probably most) who will not bid ATL or any other southern tier base. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to live down south. I'm not slamming the south, so don't take this post that way. I grew up in the south (even further south than ATL). I loved it growing up. I thought we were nuts for moving to the great white north, but once we got here we loved it. After moving all over the US and even overseas, I have no desire to return to the heat and humidity. I'll take the cold winter, four seasons and overall high quality of life any day over the oppressive heat and humidity of MAR thru OCT in the south. We do have some heat and humidity here as well, but it is not nearly as oppressive and it's actually enjoyable for a short period of time. Look at the bright side...we don't have to mow our lawn from NOV to MAR. To each his own. The point is...I don't think you'll see the mass exodus to ATL you are worried about. Headhunters/recruiters for big business in the area say it is the hardest place to get people to move to and the hardest to get people to leave. I do have to admit, I REEEEEEEALY miss the southern Louisianna cooking and I've never had nor plan to have Lutefisk. Cheers...ExAF

So...you aren't giving all that up for a 2 bedroom apartment on Discovery Bay where you can commute a hour to ride the bus four hours to work? C'mon man...I thought you WANTED to work here!

 

[another cfii]

And what about the fact that NWA doesn't has any west coast base. If we merge, even though i would expect no DAL guys would get bumped out of their own base, but SLC/LAX would become stagnant overnight when most of the NWA's west coaster can bid to these bases.

 

[Truckdriver]

And what about the fact that NWA doesn't has any west coast base. If we merge, even though i would expect no DAL guys would get bumped out of their own base, but SLC/LAX would become stagnant overnight when most of the NWA's west coaster can bid to these bases.

That is why we fence bases for 5 years or more to allow the so called "massive" retirements to happen. And those guys will all work past age 60, if you don't think so your nuts.

 

[General Lee]

Only 114 were made, Delta has 16. There are less than 100 to gobble up.

Thanks smarty pants. Well, Saudia just put 28 up for sale, China Northern and China Southern too, along with JAS (Japan Air System), and even Iberia has a few. All of those airlines are getting new Airbus planes, and the MD90s are very rarely used anywhere else. So, thanks to your checking, we will probably try to "gobble up" less than 100, but more than 1. Happy now?

Bye Bye--General Lee