Takeoff w/full flaps!!

[apcooper]

Today I rode along with a 65 hr private pilot in a 152 for a video project and surprisingly as he is going through the checklist he doesn't notice the flaps fully down even though the lever was set at zero. When I'm flying I obviously go through the checklist and visually verify they are up or at 10 deg. This time It didn't occur to me to check since he was PIC. So we TO and about 5kts past rotation speed the plane seems a bit nose heavy and wanted to yaw and roll slightly to the left but not in such a drastic way that I hadn't seen before (like on my 1st TO ever when I didn't understand "right rudder") so at about 500 AGL turning crosswind I notice a lot of nose down trim needed as well as a slower climb speed. Sure enough I look out and see the flaps stuck down and moving the lever does nothing!! I quickly ruled out electrical failure and we decide to retuern to land. Surprisingly they were asymetrically stuck as well but corrected with very little aileron/rudder. My friend seemed concerned about getting low and slow on final so he ends up being well above the VASI at about 85 kts. I told him to just fly a normal approach and after an uneventful landing I visually inspect the flaps and surprisingly I could not even tell they were asymetrically deployed. I guess aerodynamically it takes very little to induce yaw!!


Lesson learned, I should not have been as complaciant as I was by sitting back while he ran the checklist. This would not have happened if I'd been running the checklist. I ALWAYS visually check flap settings. I was very surprised that a underpowered 152 could climb that well w/full flaps!!

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

 

[EagleRJ]

Good job working the problem and getting the plane back down!

My C-152 experience is very limited, but I think it sounds like an electrical problem. Is there a fuse or circuit breaker for the flaps? I doubt if there was any asymmetry- you would have known it for sure.

I've never tried it, but I hear the 152 doesn't do very well in the climb with full flaps, especially with two on board. Maybe the fuse blew as they were retracting after the last landing?

Chalk it up as a lesson learned...

 

[Lead Sled]

Today I rode along with a 65 hr private pilot in a 152...
Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

In my office I have a framed photo of an old biplane hung up in the limbs of a tree. (You’ve probably seen the one I’m talking about, they’re in just about every pilot shop in the country.) The photo’s caption reads, “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”

I hope you realize that you and your friends are a couple of lucky dudes. You were lucky in that you were in a 152 with a 30 degree flap limit. Had you tried this a something like a 150 with the flaps set at 40 degrees there would have been a very real chance that we would have read about another general aviation accident. I knew a pilot who tried the same stunt in a 172 (An older one with 40 degrees of flaps.) - he and his passenger were killed when their airplane mushed into a building. (This was the major reason why Cessna limited the flaps to 30 degrees in the 152.)

Remember, when it comes to aviation, there are few things more dangerous than two pilots in a single pilot airplane. It takes a certain amount of training to safely divide cockpit duties. Without well defined responsibilities and limits there will be ambiguity in the cockpit. As you can see, it has the potiential to be deadly. You had a very dangerous situation on your hands and it had nothing to do with the flap setting. I hope you have learned a major lesson.

'Sled

 

[apcooper]

but I think it sounds like an electrical problem. I doubt if there was any asymmetry- you would have known it for sure.

As my friend and I were walking into class tonight it occured to me it could have been a popped CB. I mentioned it to him and he thought that was a good possibility.

There is no question that the flaps were asymetrically deployed even though I didn't notice it on the ground afterwords. I told my friend to take his hands off the controlls and the plane clearly yawed and rolled to the left although not abruptly.


Lead Sled,

I know it was stupid. Complaciency kills. I was surprised to see we were climbing at 400-500 fpm though. Before I figured out what was wrong I only noticed something was slightly out of place. Very surprising!!

Let me add too that instinctivly and instantly I fell back on my training and the number 1 rule when something isn't right.........Fly the plane!!! Well, actually my friend was but I was ready to take control if he got too slow or otherwise distracted. My pucker factor was not very high though. Heck, I'm more scared doing 80 mph on the highway in my car than I was handling this incident.

 

[enigma]

I had the flaps fail to retract in a 150 once. It was during a touch and go. I selected flaps up, increased power and the airplane just levitated. I looked around saw the flaps hanging, checked airspeed, pulled the power and landed straight ahead. I got it stopped with about five hundred feet left on a 5000 foot runway. I don't know if we could have made it around the patch or not. But I'll never forget the feeling I had when the airplane just sort of arose in a seemingly nose down attitude.

enigma

 

[shamrock]

A friend of mine had a guy he was riding along with in a Citation take off with landing flaps. As a lowly CFI (at the time) he didn't know what was going on until they were in the air and the guy pointed it out.

This guy had a house on MVY. You could always tell when he was there. All you had to do was look for a Citation parked with the flaps down and spoilers deployed.

 

[Vik]

I'm surprised neither of you noticed the flaps full down in a C152. It is really kinda hard to miss considering if you weren't doing any work like running checklists, you must have been looking around and not just straight ahead.

Oh well, chalk it up to good luck.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Had a student do that on a checkride from a touch and go.

Also had a student do it on a touch and go while we were practicing. He figured it out at about 700agl, and made it around the patch jsut fine.

known of students doing this on their 1st or 2nd solo, and the CFR trucks roll out to meet them when they land. not a giant deal with only flaps 30 on a decent sized runway.

If it was as short field, there would be major problems

 

[GravityHater]

failed microswitch

 

[EagleRJ]

GravityHater

I'm sorry, did you say something? I was distracted...