Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Takeoff Uncertain for Virgin America

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

CaptJax

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Posts
310


Takeoff uncertain for airline
Startup Virgin America braces for setback in bid to win approval to fly SFO-New York


David Armstrong, Chronicle Staff Writer
Saturday, December 23, 2006













Virgin America, the startup airline that plans to operate from San Francisco International Airport, says it expects that its application to begin service will be rejected by the Department of Transportation next week, a blow which would, at a minimum, postpone its launch.
The airline believes it can submit a revised application and eventually win government approval, a company spokesman said.
Virgin America Inc., a Burlingame company 25 percent owned by British entrepreneur Richard Branson, filed for Transportation Department approval in December 2005. It has since ordered aircraft and won Federal Aviation Administration clearance in a technical review. But the airline cannot begin service until the Transportation Department signs off in a separate procedure.
Virgin America, which identifies itself as a low-cost carrier, has proposed to operate transcontinental flights between SFO and New York.
Its bid has been snagged by objections made by Continental Airlines and other major U.S. carriers that Branson, a British citizen, will exercise actual control of the new carrier. That's contrary to U.S. law, which requires control of airlines to rest with U.S. citizens.
Virgin America's Chief Executive Officer Fred Reid has insisted that Branson is simply an investor and that the U.S. company is licensing the Virgin brand.
Reid told the Wall Street Journal online edition and Bloomberg News Friday that Virgin America had heard informally from contacts in the government that its application would be rejected and the news will be delivered next week.
Virgin America's chief told Bloomberg that he expected the application eventually to be approved, but it's "theoretically possible" the government's objections could be so sweeping that the airline would not be able to get off the ground.
Transportation Department spokesman Bill Mosley declined to comment on the status of the application and said the agency had "not set any timetable'' for ruling on it. He said that the department had requested more documentation after Virgin America filed its application in December 2005 and that the airline had complied.
Virgin America spokesman Gareth Edmonson-Jones said Friday that the company would not identify who told it to expect a confirmation delay but that it is bracing for a setback. He stressed that any government concerns would be addressed on appeal.
Reid told Bloomberg Friday that Virgin America could still take to the air sometime in 2007.
Virgin America's application has received an unusually high degree of scrutiny -- chiefly because of Branson's involvement, said Henry Harteveldt, an airline analyst who heads the San Francisco office of Forrester Research.
"I believe there's a double standard being applied toward Virgin America,'' Harteveldt said. "This stems from the fact that Richard Branson is involved. It's not so much Mr. Branson himself. Toyota can open factories in this country and U.S. banks buy branches overseas. But there's this belief that airlines are essential to national security.''
Branson, as a foreign citizen, has bolstered this belief, Harteveldt said -- and inadvertently done so at a sensitive time in international aviation circles.
The United States, he said, has been trying to forge an ''open-skies'' agreement with the European Union that would allow U.S. and EU airlines unprecedented access to each other's markets.
U.S. carriers especially covet greater access to London's Heathrow airport, which handles more international traffic than any airport in the world. European carriers are eager to fly more freely in the United States, the world's biggest aviation market.
However, an open-skies pact has met with nationalistic and security concerns. Virgin America's application appears to have been swept up in this debate, he said.
"There's also an application from a company called SkyBus, in Ohio, and it is not receiving this level of attention,'' said Harteveldt. SkyBus is U.S.-owned.
E-mail David Armstrong at [email protected].
Page C - 1
 
No, its good!!!! We dont need $90 Airbus Ca flying around.

It's $95 for the FIRST year :rolleyes: It goes up to the mid hundreds after a few years.
The kindergarden mentality that is sometimes shown around here is pretty pathetic...
I hope they get the green light and I wish them well. Let the market decides if they make it, not politics.
 
Ah yes. Imagine a pilot or pilot group not wanting to see someone else succeed. Maybe that is what is wrong with this industry? How many of the guys over at VA were actually $hit on by other failed management or airlines? Ninety five bones an hour for first year startup, granted not getting rich anytime soon but you are at a startup right? What was the first year pay when your airline was a startup?
 
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot12406.htm

DOT 124-06
Wednesday, December 27, 2006
Contact: Bill Mosley
Tel.: (202) 366-4570

VIRGIN AMERICA MUST GIVE UP INTERNATIONAL OWNERSHIP AND CONTROL TO MEET CITIZENSHIP TEST FOR U.S. CARRIER STATUS, ACCORDING TO TENTATIVE FINDING

Virgin America would have to revise its ownership, corporate structure and associated agreements to be 75 percent owned and actually controlled by U.S. citizens before it can receive an operating certificate, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) said today in tentatively denying the company’s application.

Under the Federal Aviation Act, to be certificated as a U.S. airline, a company must first show that it is actually controlled by U.S. citizens, that the president and two-thirds of the board of directors are U.S. citizens, and that at least 75 percent of the voting interest is owned or controlled by U.S. citizens. The Department recently withdrew a proposed rule that would have amended its interpretation of the statute’s “actual control” requirement so as to allow additional foreign investment.

In its show-cause order, the Department tentatively concludes that Virgin America’s close relationship with the U.K.-based Virgin Group indicates that the carrier is not under the actual control of U.S. citizens. The order cites the Virgin Group’s and its executives’ pervasive involvement in the creation of Virgin America, the funding Virgin Group provided to the carrier, various interlocking financial agreements, and the Virgin Group’s ability to influence decisions of the carrier’s board. The Department also said that the restrictive name-brand licensing agreement between Virgin Group and the airline impedes the carrier’s independent decision-making authority. However, the Department’s tentative decision reflects its review of the specific terms of the Virgin America licensing agreement, and DOT emphasized that properly structured licensing or franchise agreements between U.S. and international carriers are now, and will continue to be, permissible.

The Department also tentatively found that less than the required 75 percent of voting interest in Virgin America is owned or controlled by U.S. citizens, with most of its voting equity held by companies that are majority-owned by non-U.S. citizens.

In order for an application to be granted, Virgin America would have to demonstrate that it is independent of the Virgin Group and other non-U.S. citizens, and that at least 75 percent of its voting equity is held by U.S. citizens.

On July 12 the Department found the company’s application to be complete. DOT’s tentative decision follows an extensive review of Virgin’s heavily contested submissions and public comments.

Virgin America may file an objection to the proposed decision within 14 calendar days. Answers to objections will be due seven business days afterward. The show-cause order and other documents in the case may be found on the Internet at http://dms.dot.gov, docket OST-2005-23307.
 
First year at JB is 110, Alaska 130, Aloha 118, Atlas 118. Not a particularly great scale. They sure aren't bringing the industry up.
 
Last edited:
HTML:
First year at JB is 110, Alaska 130, Aloha 118, Atlas 118. Not a particularly great scale. They sure aren't bringing the industry up.

So all those guys are hiring first year Captains too? How long is the upgrade at Alaska? Short term, the Virgin payscale is fine, longterm they negotiate a raise. They are just getting started. The lines weren't very long at the Southwest-Air Inc. booth back in 2000 while the Legacy lines were out the door. Now look at all the guys begging to work for Southwest. Most of the Virgin guys paid their dues someplace else, had some bad luck, and are looking at a fresh start.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top