TAB Express

[cyork25]

Has anybody in here had any experiences with TAB express? Would you please give me opinions on this school. Any information about flight schools would be helpful, i am about to attend one and TAB was my top pick, but i'm not sure.

 

[Publishers]

Search

Search the site. There has been plenty written on this

 

[cyork25]

Also if there are any former Tab Express students out there, i'd love to here from them.

 

[bobbysamd]

Should you pick up the TAB?

I'll save you some time.

This thread is probably the best one I've seen on the subject from the standpoint that it at least is not one-sided. Some of my opinions are there, so I won't repeat them here.

Hope that helps.

 

[cyork25]

thanks for your input. I have spent hours and hours reading all that has been said on this website about various flight schools. I also noticed that you had been an instructor at mesa's school. I have a question for you. I have herd that Mesa's washout rate in training is the worst in the industry, like 50%. I was wondering if this is true. Also, any new input about tab would be helpful, if anyone has any. Thanks in advance

Chris York

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD

Yeah, I've heard stories, alright, about Mesa's washout rate. But, understand that initial training is a horse of a different color compared to flight school. It can be major culture shock.

I don't think that you can tie MAPD to the washout rate directly, because so many MAPD grads succeed. Just the same, lack of experience might have something to do with washouts. MAPD pushes people hard and imbues you thoroughly in Mesa's line procedures. Graduates who abide by the program and go with the flow get interviews, and get hired. After that, they're on their own, meaning they must perform at the same level with pilots who might have far more experience than they and who have experienced and know how to deal with high-pressure airline ground school and sim training. Everyone is now playing on the same playing field, and experience can make a difference in your success. Compare it to college football players transitioning to the NFL. These are excellent football players, but they have to get through training camp, which is more intense than college football practice. Then, they have to prove that they can play with real professional football players. There are NFL players who get professional football experience elsewhere, such as NFL-Europe or minor league football, and because they've been there they know what to expect. Compare that to instructing for a while and flying freight or 135 before hire at the commuters.

One other point is the quality of instructor. Not all airline instructors are positive and supportive. A good many of them are not teachers at all but are fascists on an ego trip who revel in busting people. Or, they cannot teach. Or, you just may not hit it off with your instructor, as hard as you try (I had such an experience in a job.). Unfortunately, you need these people for your success. I'd say poor instructor-student relations contribute heavily to high washout rates, at all airlines and not just Mesa.

Hope that helps some more. In any event, good luck with your choice.

 

[cyork25]

Well,
let me get some opinions here, where should i go, what should i do. I just want to find the best training so I can be better qualified when i get my first job.

 

[TriDriver]

All

I think anybody who has read a previous TAB Express thread knows I instruct there in the King Air. I want to reiterate that I am a part-time training captain and am definitely not trying to sell the place to anybody.

I got a PM from cyork 25, and I want to post most of what I said to him. Many of you may know my friend Doug Taylor. Like he says on his forum, he would like to keep things basically public so everyone can benefit from the interchange of info. In that vein, I feel I should post what I told cyork25, so you can learn/respond/flame

The reference to "Brian" has to do with a friend of cyork25 who works for XXXJet (de-identified) Brian recommended he find a local 141 school to train at. Brian thought that TAB wouldn't teach "basic airmanship" and that because of the "canned flt plans" we use a TAB student wouldn't learn basic flight planning. Brian was also concerned about not having a CFI after finishing up at TAB and what do you do if you don't get hired right away by an airline (a legitimate concern and a real problem).
**********************************

Hi cyork25

I got your e-mails, sorry I didn't respond more
quickly, but I was flying at TAB yesterday.

I respect your friend Brian's concerns, but they are
totally unfounded (except for the one about what do you
do if you don't get a regional airline job).

Again, I'm not in sales at TAB, and I want you to do
what's right for you. I'm definitely not trying to get
you to attend. But, here's the reality.

Brian expressed concern about "canned flight plans" and
METARS/TAFS/NOTAMS. I guess he wouldn't like military
trained pilots, because they very rarely file FAA
flight plans!! They only know how to file out of their
base ops on a military flt plan form.

At TAB, you will do more flight planning and filing
than any other place I know of, because you do more
cross country flying than anywhere else. The "canned"
aspect of the flt plan is over-rated by Mitch. When I
went up to Florence, SC yesterday, we did every bit of
flt planning, to include getting all our weather and
NOTAM info. We did performance and weight and balance
planning and reviewed our "canned" flight plan. When we
call the FSS to file, we give the specialist our
"canned number". All this does is cut down on a bunch
of telephone talking. We have definitely gone over all
aspects of the flight plan. When talking with the FSS
specialist, we only have to change anything different,
such as our alternate airport, number of people on
board, fuel, etc.

Brian would be very impressed with our flight planning
before a flight if he saw it. I would say that any TAB
grad could plan and file a XXXXJet flight plan if they
were given the aircraft performance/fuel numbers. They
have experience working in the flight levels and flying
DP's and STARS during their flights at TAB, and they
certainly know all about getting METARS/TAFS/NOTAMS and
filing flight plans with the FSS. We go to big airports
where we get our clearance from Clearance Delivery
before taxi, and we fly out of KDED where we generally
pick up our IFR clearance after takeoff. TAB pilots
know ALL aspects of flt planning and how to work with
ATC in many different situations.

Brian is concerned about "basic airmanship". I think
his concern is that you learn a lot by teaching as a
CFI for several years. This is true. I love
instructing, and have learned a lot teaching people to
fly. But, teaching slow flight, stalls, takeoffs and
landings, etc. in a Cessna 152 for 2 years is not
required to learn "basic airmanship". When you train
for your Pvt and Comm ratings at TAB, you will get all
the same "basic airmanship" training you would get at
any other school.

At TAB, you will learn more "ADVANCED airmanship" than
any other place I know except the military. At TAB you
will fly an 11 hour Familiarization stage of training
in the actual King Air aircraft before you start doing
the 100 hours of LOFT/IOE cross-countrys. In the King
Air, we will go out and do steep turns, slow flight,
stall series, Vmc demos, rapid decompression/emergency
descents, engine out procedures in flight, and
single-engine landings in the actual aircraft. This is
training that virtually no one else (except the
military and some regional airlines) does in such a
high perfomance aircraft. This kind of stuff is done
almost exclusively in simulators these days. I'm pretty
sure XXXXJet doesn't do steep turns, stalls, emerg
descents and single-engine work in their actual
aircraft. You will not be short-changed in any area of
"basic airmanship". I think you will be MUCH better
prepared to enter training at your regional airline
than somebody who has been a Cessna CFI for a couple of
years.

Brian's concern about "what do you do if you don't get
hired when you graduate" is a problem. There are a lot
of King Airs and other high perfomance aircraft out
there, but you will be quite low-time, and the CFI is
the most marketable rating that will get you a job to
earn money (very little as a CFI) while you are waiting
to get hired by a regional airline. I would recommend
to any pilot that loves flying to get a CFI, even just
to do some instructing on the side. With the hours and
knowledge you have from TAB, you can get a CFI fairly
cheaply if you don't get hired right away.

The real good thing about TAB is, Mitch has told me
that if you do not get hired right away and do go out
and get a CFI and work as a flight instructor (or
non-flying job for that matter), TAB will always bring
you back for some sim and King Air flying in the future
to get you spun up for an interview when you get one
later in the future.

If Brian has any other concerns about the program, have
him give me a call. Feel free to forward him this
e-mail if you like. As a Delta pilot, I just do this
part-time because I enjoy mentoring the next generation
of airline pilots such as you. I think we have a
good program at TAB, very similar to the military.
After your "primary training" getting your
Pvt/Comm/ME/Instrument ratings, other school's
"advanced training" is getting you a CFI. You really
aren't learning anything advanced, just how to teach
all the basic stuff you just learned. TAB's "advanced
training" is truly advanced. You learn to fly a
turbine-powered, pressurized, radar equiped airplane
like we fly them in the airlines.

Give me a call or drop me an e-mail any time if you
have other questions. I wish you the best as you start
out your career in the field that I love and has been
so good to me.

 

[bobbysamd]

Paying the TAB

Good post, TriDriver. It helps to hear all sides and you present the TAB side eloquently. The "career counselors" (did I say salespeople?) at the various schools could learn from your presentation.

 

[TriDriver]

bobbysamd

When I got involved in this forum it was mainly to dispel the PFT aspect of the TAB Express training. Yes, you pay for your training, just like you pay for your Pvt/Comm/ME/CFI at any other training facility. At TAB, you just get a different kind of "advanced" training than at a school that says the CFI should be the next step in starting your airline career.

I think now, I'm trying to say maybe there is a different route to take to the airlines. If you get a CFI and instruct for a couple of years, during that time you certainly are developing more air sense, solidifying all the primary training things when you teach them time-after-time to a student, but you aren't necessarlily learning anything "advanced" (turbines, pressurization, weather radar, etc.). In the military, that's the kind of stuff you learn in "advanced" training.

I remember flying with a captain at Pan Am about 15 years ago. During the trip he discussed an effort he had been involved in
with ALPA to establish an "airline training academy". I guess ALPA was considering some kind of ab-initio program or something. Nothing ever came of it, obviously. The merchant marines have a very heavy involvement in the training of people who crew ships, and I think the ALPA program this guy had worked on had many elements patterned after the merchant marine program. I think I recall the guy saying that the merchant marine can not only train their own crews, but they are also have the licensing authority. Of course ALPA is not the aviation licensing authority, the FAA is.

At any rate, maybe a different route to a cockpit seat in an airliner should be considered. Yes, any of the programs at FSI, Pan Am, Comair, TAB, ATA, ATP, Mesa, the new Embry Riddle course, etc., are very expensive. But think of the expense of working as a CFI for $14,000/year for a couple of years before you get your regional airline job making $14,000/year. Maybe if you can get to your regional job a couple years earlier you'll be money ahead.

Another thing to consider is something you have discussed - the washout rate during initial airline training. These days with the airline training records act giving any prospective employer access to your previous training records, YOU DON'T WANT TO FLUNK OUT OF A TRAINING PROGRAM AT AN AIRLINE!!! The lawyers would have a field day if you were involved in an incident and it came out during the investigation that you did not make it through training at another company. Most airlines avoid that potential problem by, well, avoiding it - by not hiring you.

When you get your chance to fly for an airline, you want to be ready. Having flown as a CFI for the last couple years may not have you very prepared for the big game (depending on what level you've been teaching at). TAB tries to prepare you by giving you training almost exactly like you'll experience at a regional airline. You'll be ready when you get your big chance!!

BTW, we had a guy interview with Great Lakes a couple of days ago. TAB sent a roster of people graduating. Great Lakes selected the guy with the lowest time (around 350 hours). Maybe they figured if the lowest time guy was okay when they interviewed him, anybody with more time would be even better. Anyway, I'll let you know if he gets hired or not. Hopefully we'll know something in a week or two.

TriDriver Bob