T-38 incident?

[bearcat]

Why all of the "sts" comments? You aren't robots, you can refrain from using your fighter "cranium," "sts," etc. crap on a message board can't you?

Speaking of the "cranium" crap...what are some of the other stuff the fighter boys/girls (you do have a female T-bird wannabe now...so might as well include them) use...or don't use? We could start a whole thread that would go on and on....

Bring on the flames...sts...

Flamebait indeed...mule...you should have done better in pilot training. That way you would understand. The sts/cranium is working.....NICE!

 

[Mud Eagle]

Why all of the "sts" comments? You aren't robots, you can refrain from using your fighter "cranium," "sts," etc. crap on a message board can't you?.

Yup...we can...but why would we?

Feeling left out of the club?

 

[stonewall]

Put Mule into the CONTAINER!

 

[CCDiscoB]

Why all of the "sts" comments? You aren't robots, you can refrain from using your fighter "cranium," "sts," etc. crap on a message board can't you?

It must be a joy sitting next to you in the cockpit. You do your thing, we'll do ours, and never the two shall meet. That is until you have to fly white jets, then you bite your lip and count the days until you can return.

 

[Laxman]

Who were the pilots? Which Maj was it? I've prob flown with him.

IP in the back seat clearing out of the front of a -38? Cant see crap out of the front of a -38 from the back

 

[Huggyu2]

Cant see crap out of the front of a -38 from the back

I beg to differ. The 12 o'clock area is obviously limited, but with a little experience on how to get the right view, you can see all but about a 15 degree swath. The "standard briefing" about "not being able to clear between 10 and 2" is overblown. 10 to 2: that's a 120 degree area. Do folks really think they can't clear that entire area?

The newspaper says the IP's name is Montgomery.

 

[Laxman]

I was refering to the 11-1 position where the helmet in front of you takes up the majority of the space, plus the mag compass. I sure dont have xray vision to see through a nugget for a small speck that turns into a small bird late game and goes down the intake. Seeing out of the sides is just fine.

 

[414Flyer]

More hearsay:
Apparently, he went down (sts) like a falling leaf, with no real control. Also, "it is said" that the battery (or something else heavy) remained attached forward of the firewall, and had it not remained, the aircraft's CG would have been so far aft that they would have not made it.

I think it was an checkride too at the time. The examiner basically push the examinee basically up to the windscreen to keep the CG as forward as possible.

But yeah, without that battery, could have ended up differently.

 

[FastCargo]

I beg to differ. The 12 o'clock area is obviously limited, but with a little experience on how to get the right view, you can see all but about a 15 degree swath. The "standard briefing" about "not being able to clear between 10 and 2" is overblown. 10 to 2: that's a 120 degree area. Do folks really think they can't clear that entire area?

Hey, when it's YOUR noggin in front, I can't see crap!

Nah...just kiddin! Hope you have a Merry Christmas. Just stopped by while I was on a layover in SMF, saw a few dudes I remember. Notice you guys are using GTOs now...very nice!

FastCargo

 

[Huggyu2]

Sorry I missed you! Believe it or not, I got a TDY to go to the GM test track in Milford, MI two years ago to pick the new mobile. The GTO was a great choice, IMHO.

 

[Laxman]

Latest I heard was that it was a Capt that punched out of the back seat, landed in/too close to the fireball but should be fine, and the stud is pressing through the program, although a half inch shorter, sts... Its good to hear that they are all right. And Mule, that sts was just for you.

 

[SATCFI]

Torche, the IP, was severely burned when he came down through the fire ball. Fire destroyed his chute and he fell about 50 feet. Broken bones as well.

 

[AlbieF15]

MP was in my squadron in Germany. Good family man. Godspeed and a quick recovery!

 

[SATCFI]

Do you know Wayne "Smudge" Mudge or Star Smith?

 

[FastCargo]

MP was in my squadron in Germany. Good family man. Godspeed and a quick recovery!

Hmmm...didn't know MM flew Eagles....

FastCargo

 

[FastCargo]

Couple of things from the T-38 loss:

A bird did go through the top part of the front seaters canopy. The front seater lowered his seat all the way down.

It was found that this causes problems the lower the seat is. The rocket in the seat is inside a flex tube. The tube bends into a sort of L shape as the seat is lowered (with the rocket at the upper part of the tube). The idea is that as the seat moves up the rails to exit the aircraft, the tube restraightens to let the exhaust point straight down (as I understand it). That didn't happen, and instead the rocket burned through the tube, causing the exhaust to split (some out the hole, some down the bent tube) and the seat to spiral out. The front seater got lucky that he still got a good man-seat separation. The T-38C fleet is now being retrofitted to fix the issue.

What SATCFI said is correct, the IP's chute was basically a streamer because of the heat of the fireball. He's lucky to be alive at all...I hope he can get back to flying someday.

Gallows humor...this is not the way to reinforce your callsign...

FastCargo

 

[Huggyu2]

FastCargo,
This is the first I've heard about the seat.
Just to clarify: you say the entire T-38C fleet is being modified. Do you know if the T-38A fleet is getting modified too? The C and A models have the same seat, don't they?

I just read the accident report: very unfortunate events. I hope he is recovering well.

 

[talondriver]

It was found that this causes problems the lower the seat is. The rocket in the seat is inside a flex tube. The tube bends into a sort of L shape as the seat is lowered (with the rocket at the upper part of the tube). The idea is that as the seat moves up the rails to exit the aircraft, the tube restraightens to let the exhaust point straight down (as I understand it). That didn't happen, and instead the rocket burned through the tube, causing the exhaust to split (some out the hole, some down the bent tube) and the seat to spiral out. The front seater got lucky that he still got a good man-seat separation. The T-38C fleet is now being retrofitted to fix the issue.FastCargo

I just talked to the Boeing egress shop here in Mesa and they know nothing of any TCTOs dealing with this issue. I also called CBM's T-38 maintenance chief and he said the only recent TCTO came out three weeks ago and it deals with checking the rails and relay any seat maintenance accomplished to Mother Randolph.
The catapult is fixed to the airframe and doesn't move when the seat is adjusted. There are two tubes at the top of the seat where the catapult is bolted (the two bolts you can never see during preflight) to the seat. When the catapult is fired, it "pushes" the seat up from those tubes at the top. Is that what you were talking about?
I'm going to observe Boeing remove the seats from a jet going through C mod tomorrow and I can get you more words after.
Cheers

 

[FastCargo]

I just talked to the Boeing egress shop here in Mesa and they know nothing of any TCTOs dealing with this issue.

Truncated for space.

Yea, it seemed kind of strange the way it was explained to me. One of our pilots was on the SIB and briefed the squadron...which I wasn't present for, so I had to hear it secondhand. So I may have screwed up the details.

The essential things I got out of the brief was that lowering the seat somehow increases the probability of a rocket catapult burn through, which causes the seat to not track true on the way out. I was told a fix was already being retrofitted to the fleet (assuming both As and Cs) but no details.

Maybe I'll go talk to the guy who was on the SIB...get the info first hand...I'll have to wait a week though.

FastCargo

 

[FastCargo]

Talked to the guy who gave the SIB brief today. The info I briefed before was essentially correct. The rocket motor (the fuel itself) is inside a metal tube that does deflect as the seat is lowered. However, the fuel is old and has started separating from the tube. So instead of the fuel burning from the inside out, it sometimes burns from the outside in, aggravating the burn through problem, and resulting in sideways vectors.

The fix I mentioned before is simply replacing the rocket motors with new ones. But this problem has actually been known about for several years, with the fix going on for the last 4 years at least. Of course, no one decided to brief the pilots that there was a problem until now...

Other things about the brief were very interesting, especially from the human factors and bird awareness points. There were some very eye opening things regarding bird impact info...some enviromental impact stuff has had unintended side effects.

FastCargo