Syracuse + Snow = Idiots

[pilotpat]

Weather at KSYR last night when we landed was down to a mile with snow. Nice and easy approach and landing. Dumped our pax and get ready to dead-head home around 6:45pm. As we're taxiing up to the hold short line, we run our checklist and get ready to call for departure. Next thing I know, this CRJ Air Wisconsin says he's holding short ready to go. He's got like 500 yards before he even makes the turn to the runway. The crew heard us and knew that we were on the other side of the runway, as we were both on ground freq during taxi. Then the following:

Tower: Falcon __ are you at the hold line?
Us: Affirmative
Tower: Air Wisconsin __ are you at the hold line?
Air Wisc: Umm.....we're just about ready to make the turn to it.

Since he was cleared for take off way back, I'm sure the tower didn't want to cancel clearance and all that, however, that had to be one of the most unprofessional moves I've seen in a long time.

Sorry for bitc&ing on your forum, but what tools these guys were.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Hmmm. I don't really see a problem.

Most airliners have the checklist done well before we reach the end of the runway, and will call ready so we have a nice smooth roll.

You were on the opposite side, so they didn't cut you off.

They were not at the hold line, but they wanted to let tower know they were not going to taxi into position.

They may have been concerned about a stringent Part121 holdover times.

Maybe the CRJ didn't know you hadn't already called ready, and thought ground or tower would sequence you.

Maybe they did try to beat you to the punch, but meh. . . .

 

[bizzum]

duide relax....I am sure they did not mean to cut you off, they were probably running the before T/O check when you called ready, did not hear you, and let the tower know they were ready. You have never made a mistake? I do not think a rant on flight info will ensure this never happens again

 

[pilotpat]

Yeah, I definitely thought about holdover times, maybe ours isn't as tough since the snow was not "wet"...I love snow descriptions. Again, didn't mean to complain, it simply seemed pretty blatant at the time.

And, yeah ~ I've made mistakes...never said I didn't.

 

[BoilerUP]

Its kinda like those corporate guys in PHL that beg and plead to depart 35 'so we can get out quick' when there is a line of airplanes on SA and S all the way to Echo...

...or how I get to wait in the pad at HPN until the four Excels, two Gulfstreams, the King Air 90 and a Beechjet takeoff before I can depart...


You didn't know anything about their holdover time situation, if they were trying to make the commute home, or if they had simply completed the checklist and were trying to not stop. If you had a problem with this, you could have told the tower you were ready and would be airborne before they even hit the hold short line.

My point is quit your whining. This post is one of the most unprofessional moves I've seen in a long time.

 

[pilotpat]

LOL Boiler...I think I stated in the original sorry for bit%ing. And I wait my turn in the congo line just like everyone else in PHL and LGA.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Don't you have more important things to worry about? Like dual-engine flame-outs? Yeesh! Better your plane than mine!

 

[pilotpat]

WTF?? You're gonna say that? Grow up instead of tryin' to 410 it.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Just a friendly joke about bigger problems of Beechjets and dual-flameouts. Not ripping. Nothing in re 410. Trying to make friendly banter, that's all.

 

[pilotpat]

Gotcha. Luckily I don't fly the BE400 any longer but I still find it odd that these dual engine flame outs began less than 5 years ago.

 

[avrodriver]

That's crap man!!! You got robbed! I hope you left your taxi lights on like every other corp plane seems to do so you blinded them son-of-a-@#$@#!


Seriously...relax. It should take alot more than that to get you worked up or your in for some long days.

 

[pilotpat]

End of a 4 day trip...crap wx...just wanted to get the f home like everyone else. LOL, though with the taxi light.

Time to watch Team America.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Weather at KSYR last night when we landed was down to a mile with snow. Nice and easy approach and landing. Dumped our pax and get ready to dead-head home around 6:45pm. As we're taxiing up to the hold short line, we run our checklist and get ready to call for departure. Next thing I know, this CRJ Air Wisconsin says he's holding short ready to go. He's got like 500 yards before he even makes the turn to the runway. The crew heard us and knew that we were on the other side of the runway, as we were both on ground freq during taxi. Then the following:

Tower: Falcon __ are you at the hold line?
Us: Affirmative
Tower: Air Wisconsin __ are you at the hold line?
Air Wisc: Umm.....we're just about ready to make the turn to it.

Since he was cleared for take off way back, I'm sure the tower didn't want to cancel clearance and all that, however, that had to be one of the most unprofessional moves I've seen in a long time.

Sorry for bitc&ing on your forum, but what tools these guys were.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Let me guess, you're a Falcon FO? Don't deny it. How does it feel to bee a gear lever operator, radio operator, and flight attendant?

 

[FlyBunny]

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Let me guess, you're a Falcon FO? Don't deny it. How does it feel to bee a gear lever operator, radio operator, and flight attendant?

And you REGIONAL airline guys talk about 'professionalism. Huh! That Falcon F/O probably makes more than your captain. But, is that the point here...NO, it isn't.

I believe that the Falcon pilot has a valid point.

It's simply too bad that all the REGIONAL pilots think that they are God's Gift to Aviation. They forget that there are other forms of professional flying besides REGIONAL airline flying...and most of non-regional jet pilots I have come across to are way more professional than the REGIONAL pilots.

Bunny

 

[G2T]

[/b][/u]

And you REGIONAL airline guys talk about 'professionalism. Huh! That Falcon F/O probably makes more than your captain. But, is that the point here...NO, it isn't.

Or they are doing an "Internship Opportunity" without pay to build that valuable jet experience.

 

[John Pennekamp]

[/b][/u]

And you REGIONAL airline guys talk about 'professionalism. Huh! That Falcon F/O probably makes more than your captain. But, is that the point here...NO, it isn't.

I believe that the Falcon pilot has a valid point.

It's simply too bad that all the REGIONAL pilots think that they are God's Gift to Aviation. They forget that there are other forms of professional flying besides REGIONAL airline flying...and most of non-regional jet pilots I have come across to are way more professional than the REGIONAL pilots.

Bunny

I make $87,000 a year on a 75 hour guarantee and gross about $92,000 as a CRJ-700 captain. And that's on a 8 year old contract. Not bad for a "lowly regional pilot".

And how is that instructing going for you? Jealous you can't get hired by a regional?

You aren't even good at flamebaiting. Try again.

 

[BoilerUP]

Why use pink font?

There was no professional 'misconduct' in this instance.

Move along, nothing to see here...

 

[FlyinPiker]

[/b][/u]

And you REGIONAL airline guys talk about 'professionalism. Huh! That Falcon F/O probably makes more than your captain. But, is that the point here...NO, it isn't.

I believe that the Falcon pilot has a valid point.

It's simply too bad that all the REGIONAL pilots think that they are God's Gift to Aviation. They forget that there are other forms of professional flying besides REGIONAL airline flying...and most of non-regional jet pilots I have come across to are way more professional than the REGIONAL pilots.

Bunny

WTF? Wanna get pissed at someone? Call the tower. They were the ones that thought both a/c were short of the runway and even after asking the falcon if they were ready first, and after the regional admitted they weren't actually at the hold line still cleared the regional for takeoff regardless of where they actually were. Case Closed.

Nice job talking out of your @#$!

 

[pilotpat]

LOL...sorry...not the FO, but that was a funny attempt at a jab. Any reason why you wanted to personally attack me, Johnny?? Go make another turn and wish you could spend a week in Belize like I get to like every other trip. And, um, yeah ~ I guess I'm the FA too if you count me pointing out where the coffee and stores are. Its not that difficult. Then again, I guess if I got into the right seat of a jet with 500 hours like you, I'd be dependent on everyone else and only pray for push back so I could shut the door. I'm not afraid to actually have to interact with my passengers. Care to volley?

 

[TAWS]

If you're going to be ready upon reaching the HS line, then simply call "ready", don't call "holding short". The Falcon pilot has a point, but this may have been an inexperienced FO at the end of a busy day - no harm was intended.

Ona separate note, whilst regional pilots are always in a hurry, corp pilots need to keep their speed up and get off the runway sooner - I've noticed this ALOT recently. I know that you guys want the ride to be as comfortable as possible, but sometimes 180 to the marker means exactly that, expedite means exactly that.

Rant over.

 

[B1900FO]

Hey! Nothing wrong here with what the CRJ did. Air traffic control, if you read the FAR/AIM, helps aircaft on a FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE basis. With that being said, the CRJ was FIRST COME because he called ready before you. Sorry you had to wait an extra 30 seconds for the RJ to turn the corner and book-it down the runway. Granted, he should've said "Wisconsin ### will be ready at the end," but oh well.

Is it worth your time flamebating about this? This happens on a daily basis. The best thing to do is try to work with air traffic control. Irregardless of whether or not your a 182, a 777, or King Air, no one has priority over anyone.

Have fun out there!!!!

 

[pilotpat]

TAWS, I agree...too many corp pilots don't care about anyone else around them. I've seen guys land in IAD and roll out for a mile, while there's 3 on final. That's just stupid. Thrust reverse, brake, turn at the high speed. If I know there's no one on final behind me, only then would I request a long landing.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

You guys ever deadhead on a flight, and there's one crying baby, and then all the other babies start crying? Man, I hate that!

 

[30West]

I'm not afraid to actually have to interact with my passengers. Care to volley?

A small nitpick here. Under 121 regs, once the aircraft is underway, technically you're not really supposed to interact with the passengers anymore.

 

[pilotpat]

You guys ever deadhead on a flight, and there's one crying baby, and then all the other babies start crying? Man, I hate that!

Ipod with Bose headset. Max volume. It's my saviour.

 

[CA1900]

Hey! Nothing wrong here with what the CRJ did. Air traffic control, if you read the FAR/AIM, helps aircaft on a FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE basis. With that being said, the CRJ was FIRST COME because he called ready before you.

I'm going to start calling "ready for takeoff" while I'm still on the ramp. That'll show 'em!! I'll always be first! Everybody else can just wait until I get to the runway...

Seriously, calling "ready for takeoff" implies that there's actually a runway sitting in front of you. As you point out, "we'll be ready upon reaching" or something like that would have been more appropriate, especially since I'm sure the view from the tower was obscured by the snow.

Still, kind of a pointless thing to start a thread about. Should I start a new thread about how slow American & Eagle taxi? Uhhh.... no.

This happens on a daily basis. The best thing to do is try to work with air traffic control. Irregardless of whether or not your a 182, a 777, or King Air, no one has priority over anyone.

Well, except me.

 

[pilotpat]

All right...maybe I should delete the thread and open a "Spiked hair backpack toting FO" one.

 

[embdrvr]

If I had a dollar for every time some corporate pilot called for an IFR clearance a half hour prior to departure from a non-radar uncontrolled field I'd be a wealthy man.

Before you start throwing stones at the CRJ crew for trying to stay on schedule you need to look at the big picture.

Oh and one other thing. Next time you're going into KMTJ with a 6000 foot ceiling please don't tie up the airspace doing the ILS. There's a handy and simple VOR approach that will get you underneath the layer with plenty of room to set up for the visual. We're very tired of holding and waiting for you to execute that unnecessary approach.

 

[pilotpat]

Big picture looked at. Okay.

Oh and one other thing...I don't fly into MTJ. So, don't try to make this personal by saying "we're very tied of holding and waiting for you". As far as any pilot calling for a clearance a half hour prior to departure from a non-radar uncontrolled field ~ who cares? I call when I'm taxiing out to the runway, but its the release that's important isn't it? Or didn't they teach you that in your big RJ school?

 

[CA1900]

If I had a dollar for every time some corporate pilot called for an IFR clearance a half hour prior to departure from a non-radar uncontrolled field I'd be a wealthy man.

Grrrrrrrr. I actually had to walk over to a fractional's airplane (Flex, I think; it was a couple years ago) in Saranac Lake and ask them to close their flight plan so we could leave. He said "they weren't answering," and I had to remind him it was one of those listen-over-the-VOR transmitters. I ended up getting his flight number and canceling on his behalf.