Sympathy for the recently furloughed

[MAJ Matt Mason]

Can we really be sorry? These are ex-military people who bitched and complained for all the years up to their release from active duty. They slammed their branches of service and poisoned the minds of the crewmen they flew with constant grumbling and whining about how they were under paid and under appreciated and deserverd oh such much more money and prestige than they and their spouses received. Now to top it all off, they're calling back to their services and begging for a job. PLEASE

 

[dgs]

Flame bait

Your flame bait has no place in this forum. After retiring with 20 years in the AF, I understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't need to be said here. Go away!

 

[weeds]

MAT,

I don't care if they spent one day in the service and bitched for 24 hours, thats alot more then many others do for our country. If they would like to come back and we have room we need to take them back.

Your time too in the military will end and with time you will be looking for a new job. I know you are not a Marine because we don't treat fellow Marines like that. To bad they let your kind in the Air Force!

If I were you I would quit this sight. I hope that is not your real name? Matt Mason?

 

[Tweetybird]

Matt,

O.K, I'll bite off on this one. Who knows if you're even for real? I have a hard time believing that someone like you would take time out of his/her day to access this site.

Point 1: Since when did it become dishonorable to proudly serve our country for quite a few years and then move on to another part of our great society? Answer: IT HASN"T!

Sure, there are a few out there who don't give a rat's tail about their job and can't wait to get out. However, I ran across a fair share of career bozos in my time that couldn't lead a group of cub scouts through a city park without getting lost. And by career bozos, I don't mean that one who makes the military a career is a bozo. Nothing could be further from the truth. My point is that slackers exist on both sides of the isle. I personally gave 110% right up to the end and I sure didn't burn any bridges. I didn't do this to cover my tail (I never thought I'd be in the AF again); I did this because it was my job. I'll agree that some folks quit prior to actually getting their DD214, but many others keep on truckin' right to the end (separation or retirement).

Point 2: Since when did it become dishonorable to return to Active Duty? Answer: IT HASN'T.

How dare you place yourself on a pedestal, while figuratively urinating on those who are willing to re-join the ranks. Your position is flawed. Do you suggest you don't need any extra help on AD? Are you saying that you don't mind all the additional duties and longer deployments created by a shortage of pilots? Obviously, those in much higher positions than you don't think so. And are you saying that you're a better officer and pilot than anyone returning to AD? Maybe you are. If so, you da man! Based on your comments, I think not.

Point 3: The military rank structure is a pyramid. There simply isn't enough room at the top for everyone. Therefore, pilots must either get promoted or eventually be forced out. So are those who don't get promoted to Maj (LT CMDR), LTC (CMDR), COL (CAPT), etc... also not worthy of your respect? They didn't resign, but they just couldn't cut it could they (sarcastically speaking)? Wrong! It's a pyramid system. Whether a service member separates, retires, or is RIF'd, you have to thank them for their service, shake their hand, and let them go honorably. If one is not worthy of this treatment then there are appropriate procedures in place for them (Discharge Other Than Honorable). Everybody has to leave the service sometime - even you. Then what?

Finally, Weeds has it right. So many in this country scoff at the military, yet when the poop hits the prop they find the nearest service member to hide behind. In no way does an American need to serve in the military to be a good citizen and great contributor. But those who are now serving, or have served, in our armed forces deserve far more respect than you're willing to give.

If you're real, take a walk through a quiet park, avoid alcohol, don't drive or fly, do some needlepoint (oops, check that - sharp objects!) and go see the chaplain man. You've got issues.

God Bless America

 

[weeds]

Tweetybird,

Nicely said!

Weeds

 

[AlbieF15]

As a former FAC and current Eagle driver, heres another 2 cents.

I was in operational (i.e. go to combat) squadrons from 1989 until I got to the FTU business (RAG for the Navy types) in 1998.

During that time, I was in combat or flying in a combat zone DURING EVERY TOUR. I had a current ISOPREP card, a current will, and was deployed over 100 days every year.

Now--I have worked for below the zone x 2 type guys as my ops officers and commanders that have had ONE operational Eagle tour. I have worked for leaders that (due to timing and assignments) have NEVER flown a combat sortie.

So...who has served more? On one hand is a guy who has had his nose to the grindstone for 14 years, spent countless hours away from his family, and (in my case) saw combat on the ground during Desert Storm, and flew repeatly in harm's way since. On the other hand are (some) guys who spent their careers on staff tours, in the training command, or making their THIRD assignment pass as an IP in the FTU--and along the way got promoted early. Have they done more for their country in 20 years than I did in 14?

My point is there are some hard working guys who have seen more and done more combat in 7 or 10 or 14 years than some guys ever have in 20. 95% of the leaders I have worked for in the AF have been superior officers, fighter pilots, and all round great guys. There is a reason they got the job--they are good leaders. However...you will occassionally find the self-righteous tool-belt that thinks he has got the moral high ground due to his 20 years (or more) of service. What they don't say is they didn't exactly suffer those 20 years--its a career path they wanted all along. The fact is, as mentioned by others...there just ain't room for everyone to stay to 20, and there is no dishoner is serving and then leaving when your committment is done.

Mind you--not every guy who never got a chance to go to combat planned it. Conversely--most "real" fighter pilots were chomping at the bit to go and get very frustrated when their former squadron mates, students, or buddies end up flying the combat missions (this happened to me with the Kosovo campaign--I was already an IP in the FTU and an old buddy shot down a Mig-29).

However--I have had a couple "old craniums" give me a bit of the whale-eye for wanting to leave and fly for the airlines (dispite the fact I would continue to fly with the ANG). For those individuals, there is nothing you can say or do to change their minds.

So--follow your dreams if you want out. Lack of a retirement check is tougher these days with furloughs up and the stock market down--but you can't fly for Uncle Sam forever and if the chance to go fly airlines presents itself, you have to make your own decisions.

Fly safe (as always..)

Albie

 

[DLFLYR]

Man, I tried to stay out of this one, but I can't stand it anymore! I flew with crew members who were this way: Infact, I admit I am one myself. From time to time, we are all quilty of it. After all, we are only human. From my experience, however, most of those who carry themselves to be "team players" and bleed red, white, and blue are the real hypocrites - you know, the ones who kiss ass and stab you in the back to get ahead; the kind who really have no concept of true team work.
I'm sure you are aware of issues that we as military pilots and crewmembers have to deal with such as lack of support (i.e. from our own leadership, support out on the road, doing WAY more with less, etc.), volatile lifestyle, CYA concept, and on and on. When we signed on the dotted line, I'm sure we didn't know exactly what we were getting into, but we all swore to lay down our lives for this great country if called upon to do so. I firmly believe that each and every one of us, when/if the time came, would lay down our lives and carry out our duty without hesitation. On every mission I flew, I had no doubt that each of my crew members were putting out 110% and yes, this includes the "out spoken" ones.
To all of those flag waving, shallow, and self righteous lost souls, think twice before you bad mouth one of your own. We ALL paid our dues and served this country proudly.

 

[Seeniner]

I, too, have been sucked into this against my will:

Shannon Spann said it best as her husband, former Marine, and CIA agent was being burried, "...he best served his country by being good...." Whether Maj Mason is for real or not, whomever wrote this post should serve your country by being good, not a jerk.

Now, I would never in my life asked to be furloughed, and I would by no means say being furloughed is fun, but I will say spending unlimited amounts of time with my children is priceless.

See

 

[LJDRVR]

Teenagers W/Computers

I've re-read your post twice now "Major Mason", my guess is that you're some 15-year old whose parents aren't providing you with the supervision your toddler-like personna so desperately needs. If you're for real, then have the cajones to identify your background like the rest of us, (space-sled?!) and attempt to defend your opinions.

If you were really in the military, (prove it tool-boy) you would be hurting to see your brothers and sisters out of a job. You would welcome those fortunate enough to recover a seat in the military. Do you really think they're just looking for a job? Uhh..we're at WAR junior. If you are for real, you would be delighted at the force-multiplying tendencies of returning aviators.

Either defend your infantile ramblings or GO-AWAY. By the way, if you are for real, I do so look forward to sharing a cockpit with you someday. You are probably one of the 1% of ex-military guys who are distressed to learn that you are flying with a Staff-Sergeant from supply. I delight in the possibility of raising your blood pressure, and that look that comes across your face when I answer your "what did you fly in the AF?" question is PRICELESS.

 

[XNav]

I knew an asskisser extraordinaire a few years back who would openly say around the squadron that he was praying for a major recession so that all the guys who were going to the airlines would come crawling back to the military begging for their jobs. He was the most unsafe and tactically unsound aviator I ever saw in 10 years of flying Uncle Sam's best. He was also the single most divisive and troublesome piece of trash ever to have any influence within a military squadron. All I can say for him (and for you) is that I hope he dies a slow, painful death with the taste of his own blood in his mouth.

 

[RueterF16]

ExNav,

His brother must have been in my squadron... he made O-5 and was put on the commanders list... what a joke... I think Rome fell this way too...

 

[rapidD]

Guys

I really hate responding to flame bait, but I also can't resist! I can't agree more with all of the replies, with the exception, of course, of Major Mason. I agree, he must be some unknowing malcontent or a young, ignorant one with the lacking experience and perspective to be commenting on something of this nature. My two cents worth: I am a retired USAF lieutenant colonel who also finds himself on the furloughed list of a major carrier. I left the service after 20 wonderful years of both flying and serving my country in staff jobs. I was fortunate enough to have actively flown in the Grenada invasion, Panama, Somalia, DS, and Bosnia. Flying not for the weak hearted, as I flew transports with no ability to shoot back. I left the USAF because I was fed up with what it took to be successful....and I was one of them! Two BPZ promotions and a White House tour. I think I'm qualified to speak from either side. Bottom line: too few good guys, too many horrible aviators who made rank in less rewarding and non-contributing ways drove me out. I'm proud of my time wearing the flight suit and I'm equally proud to be on the furlough list at Delta waiting for my recall. Nobody should feel sorry for us. Yet, nobody has the right to make gross generalizations about the goals and intents of anyone who wears the uniform unless they can step up to their own accomplishments openly. Those of us who left the service, regardless of at what career decision point, served our country and made the conscious decisiion to move on. I respect that a hell of a lot more than those who throw jabs from the outside. If I could go back today and make a contribution to the boys fighting the war, I would. I'm also happy, however, to be associated with all of my brothers and sisters who had their dreams and family fortunes shattered by 911 and the economy. To Major Mason, I say, get a life. To all of you ex-military who also find yourself in dire straits and waiting for the opportunity to fly people and boxes safely around the world, I say "keep the faith" We shall return.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I believe Matt may actually have a valid point.

I never liked or respected the unhappy, short timers (4-10 year mini-careers) who readily accepted their training and paychecks, and then bitched and moaned the whole time about how f****d up the military is. They actively discussed and sought higher paying civilian opportunities, springboarding off their "earn-while-you-learn-best-in-the-world" training, doing everything possible to lower unit morale while they were in. When these guys don't have things work out on the outside (as will often happen with this ungratefull and unhappy personality type) it is difficult for their former shipmates to welcome their return to active duty with open arms.

That is quit different from the career soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who served their 20 or more and then go on to their second career. It is also different from the short timer who served willingly and happily, without complaints, and then moves on to civilian life.

 

[bssthound]

I recall a lot of folks being "furloughed" from the military back in the early '90s. A lot of good folks who wanted to stay in were unable due to the drastic cutbacks. In the Air Force, those who remained could look forward to spending a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. Military members saw firsthand that the service wasn't the secure job we'd all thought it was. As a result quite a few bolted for the airlines as soon as they were hiring. They'd seen the govt's definition of loyalty and didn't want to be stranded when the next RIF was announced. That and not have to worry about spending months in a God-forsaken sandbox.

I don't for one second begrudge anyone who left the military for the airlines. He served his time and honored his committment.
That's a lot more than the vast majority of this nation's citizens, who think we all live in barracks and get up at 4:30 when Reveille sounds. The system isn't set up so we all can serve 20, some of us will have to do less. I'm less than five from my 20, I've bitched most of those 15, bitched yesterday and today, and plan to go to my Reserve Squadron tomorrow, where I will bitch long, loud, and vehemently. However, if called to serve I will unhesitatingly go. I will be BITCHING the whole way there and back, though. Good luck distinguishing me from my squadronmates, however. As hard as I might bitch, they usually run circles around me. Let Dubya call us up, though. We'll all be there. Bitching.

Anyway, this "Mason" fellow sounds like someone who is bitter because military pilots have the option to go to the airlines or else he's a kid who saw the words "Reconojet" and "Space Sled" on his cereal box and ran to his computer so he could pontificate coldheartedly on a lot of good people who are naturally concerned about supporting their families.

 

[RMI]

My roomate in college used to tell me there was a saying in the army his dad (a sergeant major) had told him : "a bitching soldier is a happy soldier". If we weren't complaining about this stuff, we would most assuredly be finding something else unproductive to waste energy on. Just because people complain about the vagaries of the SYSTEM doesn't mean they are not passionately commited to the IDEALS of the service.

 

[Woodstock 58]

He's not for real...

I could be wrong but there's another message board I belong to that has a Matt Mason show up out of nowhere to post insanely inflammatory things and then just disappear.

The coincidence seems too great. Sorry for those who don't know me... I lurk on this board but I'm not a pilot (my husband is). I just had to post that when I saw the name Matt Mason. I almost knew before I read his post that it would be flamebait.

<back to lurking>

 

[Spectre]

Listen Matt,

I'll be one of those furloughed pilots in January. I'm sure the furlough will be shortlived though. I did my share of combat flying over Bosnia. However, if my gunship squadron called me back to do some more shooting, I'd be back in a heartbeat. The reason pilots get out of the military is usually not money related. If that was so, I would have taken the $250,000 bonus the military offered. Most leave for quality of life issues. I wanted to return home and have my family grow up like I did--the same house, same village, same church. My next assignment in Japan would not have offered that. I was proud to serve my country and enjoyed every minute of the military. I still serve today in my state's air national guard. I'm glad in my 10 years in the military, I only met great people and never met one the likes of you. You sound a little bitter. Maybe you are a military pilot too, but none of the airlines would hire you.

 

[bssthound]

I interrupted my bitching at my Reserve Squadron today long enough to log onto the LAN. On the Air Force Global email there is no Major Matt Mason. Of course, someone entrusted to fly the formidable "space sled," or "reconojet" would certainly be in some secret capacity to which we mere mortals would not be able to access his email address.

Let's let it rest. He's just some idiot who decided to get us all
riled up. Besides, I've more bitching to do.

 

[Seeniner]

True.

Man I miss flying with you Navs.

 

[MAJ Matt Mason]

I just want a little editorial balance here. I am not referring to reserve officers. Before examining the present situation, however, it is important that all you people achieve your potential as human beings. You may balk at this, but since you realize my opinion was the truth about yourselves, most of you just want to post a large number of thoroughly warped extravagancies, inconsiderate, and, above all, the most uncompromising opinions against everything that I hold most sacred and most dear. I wonder what would happen if we really did allow the malcontents back in the services. There's a spooky thought. As a parting thought, maybe it’s most of your opinions that are steeped in mephitic atavism.