swatogether

[waveflyer]

You really don't like capitalism do you flop?

 

[madjack]

Who held the line since 2001 when the legacies were gutting their labor contracts and pensions thru bankruptcy?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Here's why Bubba: Give me your full attention on this, I don't want any confusion to linger. You listen up too Red. I do NOT think you'll actually go back to 50% of what a legacy pilot makes. Not this contract, or any future contract. But I do NOT think you should ever forget that is EXACTLY what you did to get SWA where it is!! You hear me!? For at least two decades (maybe three), legacy guys had to hold the line against your Sh!t pay and no pension. And they did a good job, until things bigger than anyone ever could have imagined changed our world. That's not "blind hatred", that is a fact. We were forced into bk. By corporate raiders, bad managers, Uncle Sam and an attack. YOU willingly went to work for an airline that wanted to dismantle our airlines and paid cents on the dollar wages.

You guys aren't even close to anything going wrong over there. But you're squealing like stuck pigs because things *might* slow down for you. You need to try and show some class, or professionalism or something. Idk the word really... Grow up!!

?

I think I got it now. Thanks. I don't know why I thought you meant that Southwest pilots would take pay cuts and other concessions,.... other than because that's what you actually said:

You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner.

​

I realize now that I'm supposed to "get" what you later say that you meant with your post, not what you actually said with your post. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll try to do better.

Also, thanks for clearing up what qualifies as "class and professionalism" insofar as airlines go. It's apparently not a startup facing unprecedented (and sometimes illegal) attacks from other airlines;--it's the airlines who do the illegal attacking. It's apparently not a startup who has continually improved its employees wages and benefits to the industry's highest, all while continuing to be profitable--it's the airlines who go up and down like a yo-yo, with hiring and raises in the good times, and cuts and furloughs in the bad times. It's apparently not the airline who continually works its own successful business model, tweaking and expanding, enriching its employees along the way, and essentially minding its own business--it's the airlines whose idea of competition consists of trying to force other airlines to do what they want them to do instead.

I'm so happy you explained all that to me; I feel so much better now.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

You really don't like capitalism do you flop?

No problem with capitalism, but that's not what's going on here. Legacies are held to the old world standard that existed when airlines were regulated. That is: public necessity. Good examples are airports DFW and IAH. Large, sophisticated airports that function as a marketplace are a "public necessity". Keeping DAL open a matter of public necessity? No. Was it necessary to SWA? Desperately. Same with another FIS in Houston. Neither the City nor it's citizens need another one. But SWA does. One level of capitalism does not exist.

 

[Flopgut]

?

I think I got it now. Thanks. I don't know why I thought you meant that Southwest pilots would take pay cuts and other concessions,.... other than because that's what you actually said:

You guys might have to go back to 50% of legacy pay scale, or forfeit that nice 401K, or whatever it takes to make SWA a winner.

​

Also, thanks for clearing up what qualifies as "class and professionalism" insofar as airlines go. It's apparently not a startup facing unprecedented (and sometimes illegal) attacks from other airlines;--it's the airlines who do the illegal attacking. It's apparently not a startup who has continually improved its employees wages and benefits to the industry's highest, all while continuing to be profitable--it's the airlines who go up and down like a yo-yo, with hiring and raises in the good times, and cuts and furloughs in the bad times. It's apparently not the airline who continually works its own successful business model, tweaking and expanding, enriching its employees along the way, and essentially minding its own business--it's the airlines whose idea of competition consists of trying to force other airlines to do what they want them to do instead.

I can agree with some of that being the case. But you're forgetting the 4 decades that most legacies existed before SWA did. The first halves of their business looked not unlike SWA's first 40.

 

[waveflyer]

We've had this conversation and yet you haven't budged your position
And neither have I

So I'll spare everyone the full GL repeat myself mantra and just say i disagree-
And this democrat thinks you sound socialist

Do you really think it's a capitalist idea that only those things and facilities deemed "necessary" by govt should exist?

Please tell Starbucks then

Not sure any one of them is necessary but damn they take up a lot of retail space

 

[waveflyer]

I can agree with some of that being the case. But you're forgetting the 4 decades that most legacies existed before SWA did. The first halves of their business looked not unlike SWA's first 40.

This is very much not true

I suggest a good aviation history course

 

[Flopgut]

Do you really think it's a capitalist idea that only those things and facilities deemed "necessary" by govt should exist?

No, but it's wrong to wring the dollars out of legacies for these facilities when at the same time SWA is allowed to build something to suit their own needs. Continental was forced to build almost double the number of IAH gates to provide opportunity for competition. Legacies are being required by the DOJ to forfeit gates in mergers, while at the same time DOJ seems intent that SWA will control 99% of DAL. This disparity is BS. Let legacies keep what they have and stop building airports bigger than what they need.

 

[Flopgut]

This is very much not true



I suggest a good aviation history course

Ok, so advancing airline flying from bonfire to bonfire navigation, to ushering the jet age in, while advancing wages by more than a factor of 10 is less an accomplishment than what SWA has done? Let's just agree to disagree.

I measure by more than just a little $

 

[slaquer5]

Here's why Bubba: Give me your full attention on this, I don't want any confusion to linger. You listen up too Red.





But you're squealing like stuck pigs because things *might* slow down for you. You need to try and show some class, or professionalism or something. Idk the word really... Grow up!!

Hi Pot, it's me kettle.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Because even though none of what they say is based in reality, it's what keeps their wood up at night Bubba. Kind of like the hot supermodel you know you'll never get, but you can still dream. Right?

Just wait a damn second!.... Who says I'll never get that hot supermodel?!

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

Ok, so advancing airline flying from bonfire to bonfire navigation, to ushering the jet age in, while advancing wages by more than a factor of 10 is less an accomplishment than what SWA has done? Let's just agree to disagree.

I measure by more than just a little $

You didn't do any of that

Get real man

 

[waveflyer]

You can get the supermodel bubba- you're a rich pilot!
;-)

 

[Flopgut]

You didn't do any of that



Get real man

Ha! Says the guy flying for the airline that just turned on its auto throttles, can't find Puerto Rico, and can't write an ETOPS program. AND a pilot group that ACTS like they've set the wages bar, but actually has a long way to go. That's reality Punkin.

 

[redflyer65]

Ha! Says the guy flying for the airline that just turned on its auto throttles, can't find Puerto Rico, and can't write an ETOPS program. AND a pilot group that ACTS like they've set the wages bar, but actually has a long way to go. That's reality Punkin.

Seriously Flop? That's all you got? You sound like the General. Weak ass argument. Let's see...

Auto Throttles? They've been turned on along with RNP approaches for about 3 years now.

Puerto Rico? We go their multiple times from multiple destinations. At least three times a day from just ATL alone.

ETOPS? We never pursued it that far. They decided near international was more important than Hawaii....for now.

Wages? How to we compare to UCAL? Let me know....





And that's reality.....tool. Why don't you speak in FACTS, instead of emotion?

 

[Flopgut]

Red: Youve got about 20 more years of NOT dragging us all down before you've earned any respect.

 

[waveflyer]

Ha! Says the guy flying for the airline that just turned on its auto throttles, can't find Puerto Rico, and can't write an ETOPS program. AND a pilot group that ACTS like they've set the wages bar, but actually has a long way to go. That's reality Punkin.

Says the guy who's doing the same flying I used to

Again- get over yourself
Being a pilot is good enough
There must be some kind of insecurity to keep needing to tear us down

Keep it up- maybe you'll win back that California shuttle

Oh... No you won't- because you won't compete for it- you'll just whine about politics

 

[redflyer65]

Red: Youve got about 20 more years of NOT dragging us all down before you've earned any respect.

Well, I already know you don't like us. That's a given.

 

[waveflyer]

Red: Youve got about 20 more years of NOT dragging us all down before you've earned any respect.

Respect?

You were right up there with delta on outsourcing man

You've got a LONG WAY to earn any back after selling your soul

Oh- and please let this sink in.
We DO NOT CARE about what you think of how we do business.
Not even a little bit.

Sorry

 

[Flopgut]

Oh- and please let this sink in.

We DO NOT CARE about what you think of how we do business.

Not even a little bit.



Sorry

Cool! No problem man. Just don't call it a free market or capitalism. You don't get to use those words anymore. You've had too much DOJ help.