SWAPA Delines To Represent AirTran Pilots

[Ty Webb]

Let it go Dan. They had their reasons for feeling the way they did. This was a forced marriage. Now we are going to go about our business of flying planes, drinking beer and lying about women. In no particular order. Before our flying careers are over we will have more challenges to face together.

That sums it up pretty well.

 

[FDJ2]

Ok Dan, I just found out- delta isn't going to be buying our 717's- Hawaiian is, and the transaction will trigger the fragmentation clause in ATALPAs contract, meaning you have to integrate 900 pilots into your airline-

What will you offer- Relative seniority? Date of hire?

The delta boys have proven lately that all of you outsiders with no skin in the game are full of sh/t if it were your career that was affected.

The Delta/NWA boys had, a SLI process agreement that was honored by all parties, a seniority list that was arbitrated and implemented without any heavy handed threats, a JCBA with pay parity on day one and an equal equity distributions for both pilot groups.

 

[Dan Roman]

Ok Dan, I just found out- delta isn't going to be buying our 717's- Hawaiian is, and the transaction will trigger the fragmentation clause in ATALPAs contract, meaning you have to integrate 900 pilots into your airline-

What will you offer- Relative seniority? Date of hire?

The delta boys have proven lately that all of you outsiders with no skin in the game are full of sh/t if it were your career that was affected.

It's over on our end, and whether you want the conflict to keep going or not, the vast majority of all of us are more than ready to move on.

But keep trying, I'm sure you'll get a few FI inconsequentials to bite.

I'll bite. A more realistic situation.....ten years ago Greg Brenneman tried to merge Aloha and Hawaiian. As you can imagine emotions ran high on both sides and all the different perspectives are way too extensive to get into here, but you can guess what it was like.
My position was for a fair combination of DOH and relative seniority with fences. I felt that any merger had to be equal to both sides as, looking down the road, the AQ pilots were going to be co-workers that I felt should be happy, not feel screwed. I really wasn't the least bit concerned if someone hired 6 months after me ended slightly senior or whatever the merged list ended up looking like. I was going to be fine with it.
We had pilots that wanted to stick it to the other group while I was most concerned that it be as fair as possible for both sides.

 

[Dan Roman]

But keep trying, I'm sure you'll get a few FI inconsequentials to bite.

Are some people on here more consequential than others?
Careful Wave, you sound like a smart guy, don't let that SWA narcissism that's so prevalent on cloud your thinking!
Everyone on here is just as entitled to any opinion they want, I really don't see how anyone is any more consequential than anyone else.

 

[waveflyer]

Nope, I'm the least consequential- id say by nature of the anonymity - FI posters have the least to lose to speak out, so will let themselves get riled and throw grenades and speak fully the truth more than other public sites- I wasn't making a comparison of anyone Dan

 

[waveflyer]

And as for the above- I'm sure you did want it to go fairly-
What if your definition of fair, and Air Tran's definition of fair were very very different?
The point being- lecture me when you're actually in the situation-
Are you saying there was no point in which aloha pilots could be placed that wouldn't get foul cry out of you?

 

[Dan Roman]

The point being- lecture me when you're actually in the situation-
Are you saying there was no point in which aloha pilots could be placed that wouldn't get foul cry out of you?

Wave this is a public forum for people to put their ideas out there. I don't think you can say it's not everyone's business once someone elects to come on here. It's not a lecture, just my opinion. Third party observations are just as valid as any other on the forum. In some case's maybe more.

For sure if our merger had happened and we got the deal the AirTran pilots got I would have called foul.

 

[waveflyer]

Of course
Duly noted for what now? A year?
Thanks for the input
Now, another question- you got that deal- without debating the ridiculousness of thinking you got screwed by swa buying you- are you going to call foul for how long? A year? 5 years? Rest of your career?

 

[Dan Roman]

Of course
Duly noted for what now? A year?
Thanks for the input
Now, another question- you got that deal- without debating the ridiculousness of thinking you got screwed by swa buying you- are you going to call foul for how long? A year? 5 years? Rest of your career?

Hard to say without being in those shoes, so I thought about it. If someone bought Hawaiian and what we have was gone? I would have zero loyalty to the acquiring airline. I would morph from someone with a good work ethic and strong supporter of Hawaiian to someone who would feel justified in any scam I could to benefit me at the expense of the acquiring airline.

 

[Dan Roman]

.....and if I worked for AirTran and SWA started using that "warrior spirit" crap on me after the way that "merger" was handled I would would be really pissed.

 

[fr8doggie]

Hard to say without being in those shoes, so I thought about it. If someone bought Hawaiian and what we have was gone? I would have zero loyalty to the acquiring airline. I would morph from someone with a good work ethic and strong supporter of Hawaiian to someone who would feel justified in any scam I could to benefit me at the expense of the acquiring airline.

Whistlin' Dan, say it aint so! I know you are not that kind of person. Lack of enthusiasm for your new Corporate master, maybe. Scamming the airline? That's not you.


I firmly believe that AT guys got shafted and that bird is coming home to roost.

Whistle me a tune Dan. I like music when I work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjN5_cJDWHs

 

[outerlimits]

. I would morph from someone with a good work ethic and strong supporter of QHawaiian to someone who would feel justified in any scam I could to benefit me at the expense of the acquiring airline.

In other words your true colors would come out.

A leopard can't change it's spots. Atleast you admit the true Dan.


Now I see why corporate America , gets ride of a lot of employes when they buy another company . They want to weed out the Dan Romans .

 

[General Lee]

Hard to say without being in those shoes, so I thought about it. If someone bought Hawaiian and what we have was gone? I would have zero loyalty to the acquiring airline. I would morph from someone with a good work ethic and strong supporter of Hawaiian to someone who would feel justified in any scam I could to benefit me at the expense of the acquiring airline.

I think it would depend on how the merger and resulting SLI was handled. If you had an arbitrator look at the facts, and give an award, and still didn't think it was fair, then maybe you aren't seeing what the rest of the world is. There will be more mergers, and more people will be upset, but that won't stop mergers. But, to have a chance at being happy, you need to have a fair process. You can then blame the arbitrator, and not the company.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

Whistlin' Dan, say it aint so! I know you are not that kind of person. Lack of enthusiasm for your new Corporate master, maybe. Scamming the airline? That's not you.


I firmly believe that AT guys got shafted and that bird is coming home to roost.

Whistle me a tune Dan. I like music when I work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjN5_cJDWHs

We all have our dark side!!

Keep in mind we at Hawaiian have a good deal invested in making Hawaiian the airline it has become. Most of us are here because we want ed to be at Hawaiian for a reason. A hostile takeover that shafts the employee's would have huge ramifications for anyone who tried steal our careers in the name of corporate growth.
So yes, I would turn into a deadbeat employee that could care less about the new owner.

(thanks for the you tube!, don't tell anyone, but I would also keep an open mind and if I kept my seat, didn't lose any pay and had more options available to me I might grow to accept big brother, more or less)

 

[humveedriver]

We all have our dark side!!

Keep in mind we at Hawaiian have a good deal invested in making Hawaiian the airline it has become. Most of us are here because we want ed to be at Hawaiian for a reason. A hostile takeover that shafts the employee's would have huge ramifications for anyone who tried steal our careers in the name of corporate growth.
So yes, I would turn into a deadbeat employee that could care less about the new owner.

(thanks for the you tube!, don't tell anyone, but I would also keep an open mind and if I kept my seat, didn't lose any pay and had more options available to me I might grow to accept big brother, more or less)

So in the end we are all human and don't want to lose seniority in an airline merger. Got it. You can talk about how my airline is this, that and the other thing. How things were done at airline x,y or z. The end result is the same. We can't all be winners in these proceedings. And from what I've seen everyone gives/loses at least a little. On to bigger and better things. Realistically Dan Hawiian will merge/buy or be bought one day. Cross that bridge when it happens.

 

[saabcaptain]

almost everyone i know voted against this change because we felt it was UNFAIR TO AIRTRAN PILOTS to be governed by SWAPA, have no voting input into SWAPA issues, complete governance by execs SWAPA pilots (not Airtran) elected and continue to pay ALPA level dues which are higher than SWAPA. AirTran pilots would be second class citizens until they converted under the proposed change and the word on the line, again and again, is that is not how we roll.

 

[Britpilot]

almost everyone i know voted against this change because we felt it was UNFAIR TO AIRTRAN PILOTS to be governed by SWAPA, have no voting input into SWAPA issues, complete governance by execs SWAPA pilots (not Airtran) elected and continue to pay ALPA level dues which are higher than SWAPA. AirTran pilots would be second class citizens until they converted under the proposed change and the word on the line, again and again, is that is not how we roll.

Sounds better than what we have now.

 

[scoreboardII]

you can be SWAPA by just voting them in.