SWAPA Comments about 717

[texman]

The article that Tex posted on another thread said 4% reduction in trips for 3rd quarter and 5% reduction of trips for 4th quarter. Not sure if those numbers are on top of regular seasonal drawdown or just the total off season drawdown.

I think they are. I will let y'all know

 

[redflyer65]

Ummm, no, not really, no.

I made just shy of $100k last year and both of my friends at my same longevity at Southwest made $137k and 142k respectfully.

Lear,

You make alot of good points and I agree with most of them, but when it comes to pay, these are the numbers. (and I'll use guarantee numbers on both sides...apples to apples)


AAI 6yr FO - 70hrs X 74 = 5180 (pre-SW)

SW 6yr FO - 79trips X 119 = 9400

I may have been off slightly but not by much. 82% increase in pay since Southwest stepped in.

The new AAI payscale is around 95/hr which got everyone alot closer to what you should have been paid to begin with. The repressive AAI management kept you guys way down and under their thumb for too long.

 

[PCL_128]

Our 2001 CBA pay rates are irrelevant.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL,

That's exactly what you were getting paid the day SW stated they were buying you.

How is that irrelevant?

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

You make alot of good points and I agree with most of them, but when it comes to pay, these are the numbers. (and I'll use guarantee numbers on both sides...apples to apples)


AAI 6yr FO - 70hrs X 74 = 5180 (pre-SW)

SW 6yr FO - 79trips X 119 = 9400

I may have been off slightly but not by much. 82% increase in pay since Southwest stepped in.

The new AAI payscale is around 95/hr which got everyone alot closer to what you should have been paid to begin with. The repressive AAI management kept you guys way down and under their thumb for too long.

I agree with your last paragraph, but your whole first section of analysis just isn't something we are looking at or even considering.

If we had voted down the 2nd SLI we would STILL be at the pay rates we are currently under. Therefore, THOSE are the starting rates when comparing what we will make (or not make) at Southwest.

What we are looking at NOW is that BEFORE we signed SIA 2, we were making an average of 80-85 hours of credit per month times roughly $90 an hour for our 6th year F/O's.

Since then, with the draw-down, we're all at or near guarantee for the next 2 1/2 years. It's a loss of 7-8 hours a month for a guy like me who bids max time at home, 10+ for our guys like JT12345 who bid for the money.

Trying to get us to use a rate that hasn't been in practice for nearly 2 years when comparing incomes just isn't something we will do. We would have gotten very close to that (I think more) taking the issue to a strike (last contract negotiations), I have no doubt of that, nor do the rest of our pilots.

You may not agree with that way of thinking and everyone has their own way of thinking, but that's how we see it, and our perception is our reality, as is the actual cash in our pocket for 2011 before the big flying draw-down compared to what we actually will make in 2012-2015, compared to SWA rates post 1/1/15.

I see your point, but we are looking at cash in our pockets NOW versus when we cross the partition.

 

[redflyer65]

I agree with your last paragraph, but your whole first section of analysis just isn't something we are looking at or even considering.

If we had voted down the 2nd SLI we would STILL be at the pay rates we are currently under. Therefore, THOSE are the starting rates when comparing what we will make (or not make) at Southwest.

What we are looking at NOW is that BEFORE we signed SIA 2, we were making an average of 80-85 hours of credit per month times roughly $90 an hour for our 6th year F/O's.

Since then, with the draw-down, we're all at or near guarantee for the next 2 1/2 years. It's a loss of 7-8 hours a month for a guy like me who bids max time at home, 10+ for our guys like JT12345 who bid for the money.

Trying to get us to use a rate that hasn't been in practice for nearly 2 years when comparing incomes just isn't something we will do. We would have gotten very close to that (I think more) taking the issue to a strike (last contract negotiations), I have no doubt of that, nor do the rest of our pilots.

You may not agree with that way of thinking and everyone has their own way of thinking, but that's how we see it, and our perception is our reality, as is the actual cash in our pocket for 2011 before the big flying draw-down compared to what we actually will make in 2012-2015, compared to SWA rates post 1/1/15.

I see your point, but we are looking at cash in our pockets NOW versus when we cross the partition.

I understand what your saying and can sympathize. That's why I compared min guarantee to min guarantee. I knew when the SW purchase was announced that your payrates where going to change soon. SW didn't want any part of the AAI labor strife. Then poof, a new offer. Those two actions were tied at the hip, and I knew then that the AAI guys would claim that SW had nothing to do with it. It brings me no joy to here that you guys are getting min guarantee. It just doesn't seem right. I feel like I'm done arguing these monetary points but then someone comes on here complaining about XYZ. Everyone will be coming over. No furloughs.

I'm ready for you guys to come over here now and lets get this get this train rolling. This long drawn-out delay sucks but I guess management got what they wanted in that regard.

 

[dicko]

I think I keep running in to the 10%.....uke:

Fascinating. Since the only common factor in these encounters is the fact that you're there - Maybe it's just you.

 

[dicko]

It must suck to double your salary

So far we've got a 20% pay cut from our AirTran pay due to SWA putting us all on minimum guarantee. SWA FO pay may cover AirTran Captain pay in 3 years time.

A 20% pay cut caused by SWA, for 15% of my remaining career is the reality.

Try again.

 

[Lear70]

I understand what your saying and can sympathize. That's why I compared min guarantee to min guarantee. I knew when the SW purchase was announced that your payrates where going to change soon. SW didn't want any part of the AAI labor strife. Then poof, a new offer. Those two actions were tied at the hip, and I knew then that the AAI guys would claim that SW had nothing to do with it. It brings me no joy to here that you guys are getting min guarantee. It just doesn't seem right. I feel like I'm done arguing these monetary points but then someone comes on here complaining about XYZ. Everyone will be coming over. No furloughs.

I'm ready for you guys to come over here now and lets get this get this train rolling. This long drawn-out delay sucks but I guess management got what they wanted in that regard.

Oh I know, wasn't trying to start an argument, the whole "double your money" thing we hear from time to time just grates on our nerves, similar to us saying you guys don't share any of the pain in this deal. Just trying to interject some real-world numbers in there, should have just shut my yapper.

And yes, I agree 100% that the quick resolution to our contract fight was driven largely by Southwest management, but I do know we would have gotten to those rates, it just likely would have taken another 6 months to a year.

I'm not hugely concerned about furloughs, either (never rule them out but it seems as though the plan we know at the moment with the delay of the Classic retirements will solve that problem). It's just going to be a long process. Hard to "move on" when every few months there's "something else" that pretty much resets the clock. It'll be fine eventually, just gotta keep on keeping on. :beer:

 

[Lear70]

Fascinating. Since the only common factor in these encounters is the fact that you're there - Maybe it's just you.

LOL - I was thinking more along the lines that it's a lot more than just 10% of us that are torqued at the moment, which is probably what he's seeing out there on the line.

Eventually it'll just be the 10%'ers, but for right now it's more like the 50%'ers.