SWA vs. FedEx- Who has better SCHEDULES?

[flight-crew]

Is it true that most of the FedEx schedules are similar to week on / week off? Does FedEx have any schedules that aren't so long on... more like 3 or 4 on, and 4 or 5 off?

I would be interested in hearing what some off the best schedules are like at FedEx, and the best schedules are at SWA.


The Pro's/Con's of FedEx vs. SWA that I have come up with are:

FedEx pilots make more money and have a retirement. They can also fly international and widebodies. They probably fly less overall legs per day. The con's are that they have to fly at odd hours. The domicile selection isn't very good. The progression might not be as fast as SWA. Both have their pros and cons. But I would really like to know about the schedules.

 

[USNFDX]

Here we go Again!

Break out that dead horse!

 

[de727ups]

Let me tell you about night freight...

3 day trips are BAD....

When you are on duty all night, it's best to do week on/week off schedules. That way you have time to adjust into it and adjust out of it with your body clock. Those who debate SWA vs FEDEX, and have never flown night freight, need to realize that it's a completely different lifestyle....not suitable for all.

Personally, I love freight and have made a pretty good deal for myself in it (140K a year, 10 days a month)....and I think those SWA guys work waaaaay to hard.

 

[Sugardaddy]

My schwarts is bigger than your schwarts

"...I love freight and have made a pretty good deal for myself in it (140K a year, 10 days a month)....and I think those SWA guys work waaaaay to hard.."

Here we go again.

 

[CoopDog]

I agree......

"Let's nip it.....nip it in the bud."

Barney Fife

 

[Falconjet]

Chill Out

USNFDX and SugarDaddy: Just because you have made up your mind where you want to work or are happy to be working where you are doesn't mean that others out there aren't trying to gather info to help them make their career decisions. Instead of belittling the posters and saying here we go again, why not add something constructive or remain in the background?

flight-crew: Chase was kind enough to send me SWA FO bid packs for HOU and PHX a couple of months ago so I could get a feel for the typical schedule there. Obviously a few months or years of reserve would come first, and who knows what that might be like. It appeared to me that just about every line was 4 on 4 off, or some variation of that. But some of those lines (which I would assume go more senior) returned to base at least a couple of those nights.

What I have discovered in a little less that a year at FedEx is that (in the back seat of the Boeing anyway) there are many different types of lines in the bid pack. There are trips with deadheads at both ends that last for a week (for hub turns in the am typically), there are am out and backs, pm out and backs, and am and pm overnights. Even on the out and back lines they are kind of a week on, week off, but you only fly 4 nights that week, with a couple of filler trips to get the credit hours up to minimum if needed. Even on reserve you typically get at least one full week off per month, and sometimes up to 12 days off in a row. Reserves work 15 days per month in a 4 week bid month and 19 days in a 5 week bid month.

One really cool thing about FedEx is you have a lot of flexibility in terms of dropping or trading trips and even R days. R days are harder to drop but if you want to be daring you can drop R days and then try to pick up trips from open time to make up the pay. If there is nothing in open time you can't get back on reserve, so there is a bit of a gamble by dropping the R days. Everybody seems to like different types of lines so you would be surprised to see some of the lines go as junior as they do (although not quite down to me yet!). If you choose to live in Memphis eventually you will be able to hold lines with pm out and backs and spend every night at home, or am out and backs and spend every DAY at home.

Bottom line, there is a lot of variety at FedEx, and the current contract allows a lot of personal flexibility for trip trading that the folks from other carriers now with FedEx assure me is much greater that they had at their prior carriers.

Hopefully some of the new SW pilots can shed some light on your question as well.

Good luck.

 

[de727ups]

The last thread?

I didn't know about that.

I do think SWA guys work hard....it's not the type of job I'd want to do. At the same time, SWA guys seem happy and work for a great company, so to each his own....don't think I'm putting down SWA at all. I've talked to SWA guys who look at me and say "how can you stand night freight"...so it's very much a personal choice...that's all. How cool would it be to work at a place where people enjoy what they do.....

I talked to a FEDEX crew in the van at YVR the other day. They had just got off a 4 day weekend layover. The FEDEX guys have commercial tickets for all outstation deadheads (the guy looked at me weird when I mentioned my deadheads were on the company)...this is something we hope for in our next contract. Also, it sounds like the FEDEX trip trade rules are much better than ours for flexability....at UPS, it's very difficult to trade trips.

 

[canyonblue]

The next post will come from a complete jackass. That might nip it.

 

[flight-crew]

Let me re-phrase my question:

Is it possible to get a shi.tload of days off at FedEx (like 18 - 20 days off per month), and only have to work 4 - 5 days at any one period?

The same question applies for SWA.

 

[Sugardaddy]

Flight-Crew,
I don't work at either company, but there is a thread out there called SWA vs FedEx, or something like that. It has been around for a year and half now, with an endless stream of opinions mingled with facts. Best of luck to you, hope this helps.

 

[Slug]

bwi F/O lines

I was perusing the BWI F/O lines the other day and saw some that have 20 days off a month and pay 87 trips or so. Most lines have about 16 days off a month. Reserve is 16 days on a month.

Just passing on some info

Slug

 

[canyonblue]

Re: bwi F/O lines

Reserve is 16 days on a month.

Finally off reserve after 16 months but I thought it was always 15 days on a month. In a 31 day month 16 days off, in a 30 day month 15. That little 16 day episode a couple months ago just covered the FO shortage until the new class got online.

 

[Slug]

good news

Cool, I just though I got away with something on my July reserve line. Sure enough, back to 15 days on. 3-4 days and a 3-day.



slug

 

[Heavy Set]

Slug,

Slightly off topic, but I noticed you have time in both the A320 and the 737NG for Southwest. Which do you prefer and why? With all of the pilots gunning for the LCCs nowadays (and most are either flying or looking at both types), I love to find out pilots' preferences when they have time in both...

Thanks


(Otherwise, please return to the schedules topic)

 

[SWA/FO]

Yes

 

[Beechdriver32]

Here you go-

Sounds like you really want an example of a real schedule. One caveat, I’ve only been here at Southwest since Feb so it is by no means a ‘best’ schedule, but here’s mine for July.

It’s,
4 on, 3 off,
3 on, 6 off,
3 on, 4 off,
4 reserve on, 4 off.

That works out to be 13 days on and 18 days off. Remember, with trip trades, I can easily manipulate what I’ve got to EXACTLY what I want (Like something more commuter friendly). And that’s as a 5 month Probationary FO. Now, if I could get rid of commuting, this would be a PERFECT job!

Between the two companies, there isn’t a ‘wrong’ choice, just a better choice for you and your family. Just don’t look back (If faced with the choice). SWA was the best place for me, and quite frankly, couldn’t be happier with the decision.

Good Luck-

BD32

PM me if you have any specific questions.

 

[Slug]

blank

A blank line in July, Apu! congrats

Ed Martin does a good crash pad.

Slug

 

[Sugardaddy]

Slug or anyone,
Could you go over what a "blank line" is again for us not-so-edumucated poolies? Thanks.

 

[Boeing4Me]

blank lines

Sometimes known as vacation relief lines. They comprise the trips that were pulled from line holders due to training, vacation, etc.

Approx 8% (I think) of the lines are bid at the end of the month (between the 21st and 23rd) instead of during the normal bidding cycle (7th - 12th of the month). During the original bid cycle one of your options is bidding for blank lines (where you're gambling you'll get a better deal than during the original bidding cycle). It's often a smart move for junior guys if you can tolerate not knowing next month's sched until the 23rd or 24th.

B4Me

 

[Slug]

Blank line

After all the awarded monthly lines come out on the 12th of the month there are bits and pieces of lines that go back into a "pot". These trips that go back into the pot do so because the line holder had a conflict with that trip. It may have been a vacation drop, training drop, mil leave drop, etc....... Scheduling takes all these extra trips and constructs monthly lines out of them. These lines come out on the 21st or so and the pilots who got blank lines on the 12th bid on their actual schedule. The blank lines are finalized around the 24th.

Hope this helps



Slug

 

[Sugardaddy]

Slug and B4Me,
Thanks for the info. Just to clarify... when the blank lines are formed by scheduling at the end of the month, how are they distributed to those who bid them during the regular bid cycle? Is there a another bid that occurs at the end of the month for the reconstructed blank lines? Or when you bid a blank line at the beginning of the month, do you do it for certain days only? Any information will help me stay afloat in the swa sea.

 

[Boeing4Me]

yes

On the 21st, the 15 to 30 blank lines (depending on size of domicile) are distributed to the 15 to 30 pilots who were "awarded" blank lines during the initial round of bidding. These guys bid again on the blank line package, with bidding closing on the 23rd. The blank lines can contain hard schedules, reserve schedules, or even mixed reserve/hard scheds (these seem to be rare). It's run just like the first round of bidding, only much smaller in numbers.
B4Me

 

[flight-crew]

OK, so what I've gathered so far from the SWA guys is that the max days ON seems to be 4 on. But I understand that having one week on (7 on) is pretty typical at FedEx, and 3 - 4 on is less common.

Now that I've seen a sample SWA schedule, maybe someone could post a typical FedEx schedule (with days on and days off).

Any more comments from SWA and FedEx guys is appreciated...

 

[klhoard]

FedEx "blank" lines

Take the SWA "Blank Lines"; then cut - n - paste the word "Secondary" and the bidding and construction timeframes during the month are practically identical at Fedex.

I don't know if SWA does this, but if you are awarded a Secondary line, you have 36 hours after the initial bid closes to submit your preferences via computer for what you want your Secondary line to look like. The preferences are awarded in seniority order and the lines are constructed over the following week. BTW - this construction is done by a computer program so you need to know how to phrase your requests to get what you want.

Some guys go so far as getting into the bid pack to see who has vacation during what week, and what trips are likely to be dropped back into open time. They then specifically request those trips and build themselves a schedule.

Obviously, your success with this system depends on where you float amongst the Secondary line holders and your preparation and homework.

 

[OakRBust]

And down the stretch they come....... Civilian pilots vs millitary pilots leads by a nose.... no wait..... here comes jet blue vs southwest........ at the wire it is SWA vs Fedex........


Where is a post office worker when you need em.... These horses just wont die!

 

[klhoard]

If you read the entire thread, it seems that "flight-crew" was asking for information to make his own decision, not looking to start a urination contest.

Just trying to give "flight-crew" some information. . . . . I thought that is what this bulletin board was for. . . . .

 

[Sugardaddy]

B4ME and klhoard,
Thanks for the information on blank/secondary lines. Just a question? Klhoard how does the FedEx airport standby work, or is there any such thing? Also, for any SWA guy... does SWA have anything like that? Or are all reserve lines just subject to the standard 2 hour call out?

 

[klhoard]

FDX airport standby

Airport standby's are 5 hours in length. A related animal is the hotel standby, which is 12 hours long.

Airport standby's are published as open time on the computer system, and if they are not filled by 48 hours prior, scheduling will assign a reserve pilot. If there are no reserve pilots available, they will begin looking for volunteer or draft (150% pay) pilots to fill it. You can also pick up an airport standby on a day off just like a published open time flight if you need to do some makeup. Reserve reporting time in MEM is 1.5 hours (3.0 hours in LAX), and airport standby is, well, 0.1 hours. They have a big screen TV, internet, sleep rooms, and recliners at the Air Operations Center so it isn't all that painful to do your 5 hours.

Hotel standbys are published as "flying" lines in the bid pack. Off the top of my head they are at IND, EWR and OAK for the B-727. The hotel standby lines are usually Monday - Friday and have deadhead tickets from MEM to and from the hub so they tend to go pretty senior. Sometimes scheduling will have hotel standby's in MEM, but those are filled by reserve pilots.

Hope that wasn't too much information. . . . .

 

[flight-crew]

Hey Keith, can you give me a sample schedule at FedEx for a senior pilot flying domestic? Like days on / days off for the whole month.

 

[klhoard]

A commuter will typically bid for the "double deadhead" lines. That means Mon-Fri FedEx flying with deadheads on Sunday and Saturday. The flying will start at an out station Monday night with an approximate 9pm launch with one or two legs into MEM. You then sit for 3-4 hours in the hub (known as a "hub turn"), then lauch again around 3am for one or two legs back to the out station. Sleep all day, repeat until Friday night.

Once you are awarded that line, you get on the computer, cancel the original deadhead tickets and reserve new ones from your home town. When you are REALLY senior, you bid for the lines that originate and end in your own town. That way you get paid for the Sunday and Saturday deadhead days while you're home. When you're REALLY SUPER senior, you can hold the weekend layovers in your home town.

Now if you're not a commuter, there are a plethora of other flying you can fly. With the mail contract, there are AM out and backs that launch around 2am and you're back in your driveway at 9am. There are PM out and backs that launch around 3pm, lay over in a hotel for 4-5 hours, and get back to MEM around midnight. There are also alot of guys who bid reserve when they're senior.

As mentioned before, depending on your seniority, manning in your seat, and how fast you are on the computer, you can manipulate your schedule to what you need. You can also swap trips and bump trips with your buddies in your seat position. I'm not saying you will always get what you want, but there are plenty of options available.