SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[Jim]

I did, and you are correct on who they were. The point that I was making wasn't whether or not you were on the flight, it was more how a conversation may have been misinterpreted. There is no letter asking for pay cuts or concessions, they were either being dramatic about the state of SWA, or they are clueless on what is going on around here.

No misinterpretation. One basically said "they are going to come after our pay and ask for cuts, the writing is on the wall" and the other two agreed. I then said "I thought you guys had a good relationship with your management to whicxh the answer was "we did, but not any more".

Maybe they are clueless but they all three agreed with each other.

 

[Jim]

I know the letter. Always did. It is a letter that sent out to EVERY EMPLOYEE. But the letter of course didn't say anything about concessions. I was not there and a really silly suggestion to call up people I have likely never seen a day in my life to see what they were talking about because some screw ball on FI said you guys were talking about something. Please.

You can make comments about any airline you want. But go back and read your other post. You concluded by the phantom content of this letter and a conversation you were only half interested in that and I quote you "Maybe it's not going to be such a big pay raise for the AT guys...."

So thats the level of crap you choose to share. Next time when you have some truthful facts, let us know. If you are capable.

I was totally engaged in the conversation and all three SWA pilots were in agreement the letter was a precursor of management asking for pay cuts and concessions. They were not happy with what they perceived as the state of your airline or management.

You and many other SWA guys on this board always defend the treatment of the AT pilots by saying how much more money they are going to make. My statement about AT pilot pay raises was in reference to that. I think the AT guys had a big $hit sandwich shoved down their mouths by your management when they didn't honor the agreement they signed for the SLI process. I don't blame SWAPA for the mess because their job was to get as much for their members as possible. Your management showed a bias and I think that will cause hard feelings for years to come with many of the AT guys. When you take away some of the expected pay raise, it makes the $hit sandwich that much harder to swallow.

I'll admit SWA pays top dollar and the vast majority of the pilots are extremely happy working there. But it's not always about the money and you guys just don't get the many AT pilots seem to put their QOL over money. It takes a certain mind set (Warrior Spirit?) to be a SWA pilot and many of us either don't have it or don't want it. THe AT pilots had this thrust upon them with no choice. (Leaving for another airline because they don't like the SWA culture is not really a valid choice and you know it.)

You can not tolerate anyone that does not think SWA is the only place they would want to work. I once made a post that I turned down a SWA interview after getting recalled to Hawaiian from furlough because Hawaiian was financially secure, because I enjoyed working here and because it was always my first choice of airline. The same group of SWA pilots (and I am pretty sure you were one leading the charge) immediately claimed I was lying because I said I was surprised they called as I had stopped updating my online app a good while before. You guys couldn't believe someone would possibly turn down an opportunity to fly for SWA. Posting that I did was blasphemy!

Things aren't all roses at SWA and you don't have to be a SWA pilot to see or understand this. The AT pilots have very valid gripes. They all know it is done deal and bitching about them doesn't change the facts, but your constant denial of the validity of their gripes with the arguement that more money makes everything better doesn't change anything for them either.

You need to take your blinders off and see the big picture. It might surprise you.

 

[maxblast72]

You need to take your blinders off and see the big picture. It might surprise you.

The big picture is SWA made a $350 million net profit in 2011, will announce next week a $400 million net profit for 2012, and Wall Street is predicting a $700 million net profit for 2013. Why would SWAPA agree to concessions when the company is not financially stressed at all? I don't consider preventing cartels from forming and game playing as concessions.

 

[SWAdude]

I was totally engaged in the conversation and all three SWA pilots were in agreement the letter was a precursor of management asking for pay cuts and concessions. They were not happy with what they perceived as the state of your airline or management.

You and many other SWA guys on this board always defend the treatment of the AT pilots by saying how much more money they are going to make. My statement about AT pilot pay raises was in reference to that. I think the AT guys had a big $hit sandwich shoved down their mouths by your management when they didn't honor the agreement they signed for the SLI process. I don't blame SWAPA for the mess because their job was to get as much for their members as possible. Your management showed a bias and I think that will cause hard feelings for years to come with many of the AT guys. When you take away some of the expected pay raise, it makes the $hit sandwich that much harder to swallow.

I'll admit SWA pays top dollar and the vast majority of the pilots are extremely happy working there. But it's not always about the money and you guys just don't get the many AT pilots seem to put their QOL over money. It takes a certain mind set (Warrior Spirit?) to be a SWA pilot and many of us either don't have it or don't want it. THe AT pilots had this thrust upon them with no choice. (Leaving for another airline because they don't like the SWA culture is not really a valid choice and you know it.)

You can not tolerate anyone that does not think SWA is the only place they would want to work. I once made a post that I turned down a SWA interview after getting recalled to Hawaiian from furlough because Hawaiian was financially secure, because I enjoyed working here and because it was always my first choice of airline. The same group of SWA pilots (and I am pretty sure you were one leading the charge) immediately claimed I was lying because I said I was surprised they called as I had stopped updating my online app a good while before. You guys couldn't believe someone would possibly turn down an opportunity to fly for SWA. Posting that I did was blasphemy!

Things aren't all roses at SWA and you don't have to be a SWA pilot to see or understand this. The AT pilots have very valid gripes. They all know it is done deal and bitching about them doesn't change the facts, but your constant denial of the validity of their gripes with the arguement that more money makes everything better doesn't change anything for them either.

You need to take your blinders off and see the big picture. It might surprise you.

This post sucked much time out of your life for something you have no dog in this fight. Why the need to prove yourself so much?

I have never said or thought that SWA was the best airline for everyone. So your "and I am pretty sure you were one leading the charge" couldn't be further from the truth. I have no doubt that a conversation took place and, yes, maybe you were in a trio of individuals that love to be in a negative place in life. We have those. You have those. All airlines have these doom and gloom people. But for you to pass that on as 100% fact, is just being a blinded jerk. I would not feel surprised that you absolutely LOVED hearing of a potential that we were going to potentially have pay cuts and concessions. Yet that very possibility could affect your future as well. Your selfishness is just blinded by these industry facts. If we concede, then everyone elses contracts became that much weaker.

Your intelligence couldn't throw up a red flag and ask these jack wagons if this letter actually said that the pilots can expect pay cuts and concessions? Didn't that sound odd to you? Well obviously the answer is no.

 

[Dash Power]

I think the AT guys had a big $hit sandwich shoved down their mouths by your management when they didn't honor the agreement they signed for the SLI process.

Oh please. Do tell.

How did our management not honor the process agreement?

 

[FlyinGuy]

What was the pass rate (pre-acquisition) on upgrade for the AT fo?

 

[labatt]

What was the pass rate (pre-acquisition) on upgrade for the AT fo?

Recent era? Let's say 2008 and beyond. I'd have to guess mid 90% pass rate. Total WAG.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I was totally engaged in the conversation and all three SWA pilots were in agreement the letter was a precursor of management asking for pay cuts and concessions. They were not happy with what they perceived as the state of your airline or management.

...

You need to take your blinders off and see the big picture. It might surprise you.

They're not going to. Management is ALWAYS harping about saving money and doiing more. Etc., etc. That's been the way for as long as I've been here (long before the Airtran purchase). You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that a company making large profits, historically and continually today, will not get any concessions or givebacks from its unions. You DO realize that, right Jim?

To be blunt, NO ONE from management has said the first word about concessions. NO ONE in management has said the first work about furloughs. NO ONE. Not in a letter, not in a public statement, nowhere. Is that clear enough for you Jim? They're harping on attendance (although this is a bigger issue for other work groups, not the pilots specifically), and ways to be more efficient. That's their job.

Are some Southwest pilots pissed off? Sure. Mainly about the Airtran acquisition and the lack of organic growth. Are some pessimistic? Of course. But they see what they want to see because of that. Did Southwest pilots tell you what you said in your post? Maybe--I wasn't there, and I'm not gonna' call you a liar. However, if they did, and you didn't misconstrue what they said, then they fall into the category I mentioned: pissed-off and/or pessimistic. Believe it or not, Southwest has its share of those, just like any other airline. Even in the best of times those folks are always like that.

Jim, you should know better than to forward crap like that. Don't you think that if such a letter had been put out, it would have thrown up on this board inside of two minutes? Now that General Lee has gone legit (and I commend him for trying his hardest, even in the face of provocation), don't be the new "that guy." You know which guy I'm talking about--the guy who gloats and takes every opportunity to predict the upcoming demise of Southwest.

Bubba

 

[FlyinGuy]

Not pass as in pass/fail, pass as in I want to be an f/o because the money is not important type of pass.

 

[humveedriver]

Not pass as in pass/fail, pass as in I want to be an f/o because the money is not important type of pass.

Virtually non existent when we had one base and one airplane type. As we added bases and a second aircraft type you began to see FO's holding out for 737. Because we waited so long to open other bases than ATL, there was no shortage of people wanting to be junior Capts in mke and mco. I don't have a number or percentage. Not even a wag.