SWA starts proviing runs to SJU

[humveedriver]

Why do I keep getting this re-occurring vision of the first SWA 737 landing in San Juan for the first time; GK and all his staff in the SOC room nervously watching flight aware and getting ACARS updates on the aircrafts progress. Then when the airplane safely lands the entire SOC erupts, applauds starts crying and hugging like they just landed on the moon. SWA cracks me and probably always will. Whenever they start service to a new city, no matter where it is, they act like they are the first folks to attempt this monumental achievement of manned flight.

 

[labbats]

First ATL and now SJU? I hope the best for everyone but it seems Southwest is trying to find destinations where a 25 minute turn are impossible.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I didn't say that ACARS is required, the underlying concept was that without it, you would need to get your performance numbers for an airport that isn't in your Op Specs as a Destination, Alternate, or Tech stop.

Yes, all that stuff needs to be established beforehand; that was the point I was trying to make. I guess you were to jet-lagged to get it. :laugh:

Not jet lagged enough to realize you don't know what is required for international operations under ICAO member states, first of all, you WILL require airport along the route that comply with the one hour rule on one engine at 10K, ring a bell? If you don't get those airports along the route and the charts for them, no certification of that route. Second, not all adequate airports along specify routes need to have ground handling nor fuel contracts, there are contingency plans for this, in our case we have several fuel and regular credit cards in case of a diversion to an airport along the route that is not either of the airports you discribed. In that instance, there are alternate procedures that will allow you to get all your data over the phone, in the case that not even a fax is available. The FAA as the regulatory agency of an ICAO member country WILL comply with the adequate diversion airports requirements before the start of operations for hire. Hence my original comment, if you have to divert due to WX or medical emergency, So what?

 

[nimtz]

The proving runs are a formality for class II nav and flag operations. All companies that conduct international ops did them at some point. SJU was just the easiest destination to do them on.

You guys yuck it up, your company boss' are crapping themselves because just like the Domestic markets, SWA is about to serve up a healthy ass whoopin only this time it will be on your profitable routes.

Good luck.

Yeah the Puerto Rican market is underserved and just stuffed with high ticket paying pax!

 

[Squirrel29]

Still don't get this "proving run" it isn't required as far as I know. Can someone explain why they have to do it?

 

[Bill Nelson]

Yeah the Puerto Rican market is underserved and just stuffed with high ticket paying pax!

SWA determines the ticket price for every market they serve. The only ticket price increase in their markets that stick are those they initiate or agree too. All other attempts get repealed. That is factual.
SWA has the largest most effective domestic feed. They will create the market with the network and they will moderate the ticket prices until competitors cede market share that they will gobble up. Proven effective year after year for 41 years. How many consecutive years has your company made money and how much has your domestic market share shrunk?

Good luck.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Leave Bill Nelson alone.....he's a warrior with a kool-aid funnel on 24/7/365.

Again, this is not news.....

"NO way....that's great! WE'VE LANDED ON THE MOON!"
-LLoyd Christmas-

 

[GIZMONC]

Still don't get this "proving run" it isn't required as far as I know. Can someone explain why they have to do it?

FAA told SWA they needed to start from scratch. Although SWA and FL are on the same operating certificate, FAA is requiring SWA to start from scratch on the certification process. Probably why SWA hired Randy Babbit to get someone in house who has an insight was to what is goig on in reguards to approval process as well as who to go to and what to do as to not delay the process. SWA has the pilots and fa's ready it just needs to get all the other ducks in a row. Once it is approved, flights will be loaded into the system and sell fast.

 

[Squirrel29]

But I never heard of needing to do proving run for classII navigation. Etops yes. Last company we was issued the certificate without doing any provings runs to SJU or the carribean.

 

[SKC]

I didn't say that ACARS is required, the underlying concept was that without it, you would need to get your performance numbers for an airport that isn't in your Op Specs as a Destination, Alternate, or Tech stop.

Yes, all that stuff needs to be established beforehand; that was the point I was trying to make. I guess you were to jet-lagged to get it. :laugh:

SWA doesn't obtain performance numbers via ACARS like your TLRs. I'm betting every possible Caribbean alternate will be in the OPC just for that type of event.

 

[carl p]

But I never heard of needing to do proving run for classII navigation. Etops yes. Last company we was issued the certificate without doing any provings runs to SJU or the carribean.

I was at a prior 121 carrier that was required to do proving runs for class II nav.

 

[Ty Webb]

Not jet lagged enough to realize you don't know what is required for international operations under ICAO member states, first of all, you WILL require airport along the route that comply with the one hour rule on one engine at 10K, ring a bell? If you don't get those airports along the route and the charts for them, no certification of that route. Second, not all adequate airports along specify routes need to have ground handling nor fuel contracts, there are contingency plans for this, in our case we have several fuel and regular credit cards in case of a diversion to an airport along the route that is not either of the airports you discribed.

Look, Chief, I'm not sure why exactly you're choosing to direct your arguments to me . . . if you go back and read the original posts, you'll see that I was saying that, as a purely domestic carrier, SWA does not have any of these things yet. That was my point, yet you want to either debate me on it, or try to impress us with your vast knowledge of all things international. You're basically arguing with yourself. . . . hence my comment about you being "jet lagged".

To further clarify, I'm not flying for SWA, I'm currently on the other side of the partition . . . my first near-International flight as PIC was in 1990.

 

[Ty Webb]

SWA doesn't obtain performance numbers via ACARS like your TLRs. I'm betting every possible Caribbean alternate will be in the OPC just for that type of event.

Copy dat. . . . . Does that thing have the ability to print out your takeoff performance data? If not, they'll need some way to comply with that requirement, as well.

 

[goahead]

Proving runs to SJU? Didn't Pan Am, Eastern, and Trans-Caribbean take care of this in the mid 1950's? Lots of 737's in and out of SJU daily(although the smaller of the jets serving the airport). It is not ETOPS unless you are flying from the Northeast when Bermuda is closed so why again does this route need a proving run? FA's practicing the life vest/raft demo? Use of long range navigation for the pilots? "This guys, is an HF radio. These were used during WWII to communicate great distances".

Meanwhile our guys are doing real proving runs on the 787 this week. Proving runs that make sense.

Where's the like button!

 

[redflyer65]

Let's see . . . for starters, no International Ops Specs, No International dispatching software. No ACARS. No international procedures training, no approach charts . . . No ground handling contracts in place. No fueling contracts. No approved weather sources.

Other than that, it's a breeze.

Ty,

I'm don't understand your post. Then why is Southwest flying an 800 to SJU all week then? By the end of the year we will have around 22 737-800s with ETOPS (not that you need that for SJU), and each of those 800s are fully equipped. Pretty much every option you could order from Boeing...including printers/HF/etc, etc.

As Lear stated, STX is close by and there will be international contingency airports. It ain't rocket surgery.