SWA schedules/QOL vs AAI

[madjack]

doubt it...especially now...

 

[waveflyer]

This isn't an SLI thread.

This is a calm discourse comparing work schedules and related items and I'm enjoying have a nice discourse with my future coworkers.

Please take your SLI comments back to an SLI thread.

Thanks in advance.

What he said. And the standard applies to all of us, not just the delta geeks.

 

[Ty Webb]

those Red Eyes full? You think they are here to stay? Do you get more $$ to fly them? Something, SWAPA will have to visit in the future.

They don't pay "extra" per se, except that, in the case of CDO's, you get 70 hours' pay for 35 hours' flying, and in the case of the redeyes, you get daily guarantee while you're sleeping in the hotel.

I haven't flown a redeye or CDO in 4 or 5 years . . . . If I lived in base, I wouldn't mind them, but sitting around waiting for the first flight home, after flying all night really sux. Plus, the looks you get when you're enjoying your "Miller Time" at 09:20 are annoying.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

If you really want to have a valid discussion about the lines at the two companies, why compare your July line with our absolute minimum guarantee?

PS., I was always taught that it was rude to discuss one's pay. I understand the context, but some of you guys act like your whole self-worth depends on your W-2, when everyone else knows it's the size of your schlong that really matters. :laugh:

Because my line as is very near our min of 89 TFP for a 31 day month so I felt it was a valid comparison. To me pay is a large factor in my QOL but not my self worth.

Luv,
Ghetto

 

[Ty Webb]

Because my line as is very near our min of 89 TFP for a 31 day month so I felt it was a valid comparison. To me pay is a large factor in my QOL but not my self worth.

Luv,
Ghetto

The only time you are likely to see a minimum credit line at AirTran is when it is a CDO or some other non-regular line.

So, again, if you wanted a valid comparison, you would compare an average line with an average line. Otherwise, it's like putting a sock in your pants. :laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

What he said. And the standard applies to all of us, not just the delta geeks.

Uh-oh, Dad's home . . . . :laugh:

I believe you were #3 to weigh in on the subject:

" Ok so I spend a good amount of time convincing guys to lower their expectations. SWA will give you more pay and more days off so don't let pride get in the way. Now you tell me that a ten year AAI guy makes more than a ten year SWA guy

."

 

[waveflyer]

Not a lecture- and im as hypocritical as we all are- applies to me too- I just agree with Lear and was enjoying the conversation and comparisons when it got away from SLI agendas.
I'm genuinely curious how the company will change things after operations merge. Will we keep red-eyes and CDOs? Will ATL continue as a hub and spoke as our whole system continues to have more intentional connect opportunities? Or be morphed into our standard point to point lines?
And it's good to hear what guys are actually doing and getting paid instead of what we assume.

 

[Ty Webb]

Fair enough.

I wonder about those (redeyes, CDO's) as well.

Some guys like them and bid 'em. A few CDO lines go very senior. The majority of our pilots, though, seem to not like them, just based on conversations and seeing the awards. Since your contract doesn't allow for them, it will be interesting to see whether SWA mngmnt has any interest in adding that type of flying, or whether they can find other ways to efficiently serve those markets.

 

[WTFOVER]

Shouldn't you all be considering the September 2010 snapshot? Airtran got a huge raise after the announcement.

 

[Ty Webb]

Shouldn't you all be considering the September 2010 snapshot? Airtran got a huge raise after the announcement.

Yawn. Troll city. :smash:

 

[texman]

Not a lecture- and im as hypocritical as we all are- applies to me too- I just agree with Lear and was enjoying the conversation and comparisons when it got away from SLI agendas.
I'm genuinely curious how the company will change things after operations merge. Will we keep red-eyes and CDOs? Will ATL continue as a hub and spoke as our whole system continues to have more intentional connect opportunities? Or be morphed into our standard point to point lines?
And it's good to hear what guys are actually doing and getting paid instead of what we assume.

Talk to GK the other day, no hub and spoke.

 

[ivauir]

How come SWA hardly has any commutable trips?

Essentially it is because of the AM/PM split. The AM returns are what generates the PM start times. Those times tend to bunch together, but there are outliers.

FWIW I have held a commutable line since LAS opened. They do exist.

 

[waveflyer]

The only time you are likely to see a minimum credit line at AirTran is when it is a CDO or some other non-regular line.

So, again, if you wanted a valid comparison, you would compare an average line with an average line. Otherwise, it's like putting a sock in your pants. :laugh:

Well, a variety on both sides have been posted, no one here gets a min line either -
Seems to me that AT capt pay IS roughly SWA 5-6 year FO pay. Am I wrong?

 

[JT12345]

I know Ty has repeatedly noted that his seniority at AAI affords him pretty good QOL and schedules with the days off he wants. I was curious just what Ty's schedule would look like (if he were bidding. That's not a shot at you Ty. People go out on med all the time.)

I asked a friend if I could see the AAI awards and lines. She let me log in to their Flica site which they use to bid. I looked at the two pilots directly above Ty's seniority (10th year)on the 737 ATL and one directly below. I then compared that to my own schedule for July. I am a fifth year FO in BWI at about 75%.

The three AAI lines were basically identical. Four-day trips, Sat-Tues. Each line had a full week off and 17 days off. All three lines worked the 4th of July weekend and holiday.

My July line works 3-days, Sun-Tues. My line has 18 days off. My line also has a week off, from July 3-9.

Now for the pay. All the AAI lines credit about 82, which at $155/hr is 12,700. My line credits 105 TFP, which at 115 is 12,100.

I'm not trying to incite any riots here. I just had a 19hr layover and was getting bored so I thought I would demonstrate how our schedules and QOL compare.

Boy that is really competitive. I am sure all this stuff will be around the next 10 years. You can guarantee it.

I remember when I use to jump seat on NWA and Delta... how they use to talk like this. The pilots and FAs. Gravy train talk. They don't brag much anymore.

You/we have nothing to worry about. Everyone else is the same as they were years ago. No one has learned anything or adapted to their respective situations in this business. It won't change.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

The only time you are likely to see a minimum credit line at AirTran is when it is a CDO or some other non-regular line.

So, again, if you wanted a valid comparison, you would compare an average line with an average line. Otherwise, it's like putting a sock in your pants. :laugh:

Ty I respect your opinion but I think you are failing to grasp a few things here. 1st my line is mostly reserve which per the SWAPA contract is the least productive at 6.0 TFP/day. Second this whole discussion stemed from the fact that I wondered what my pay/QOL as a junior F/O was compared to a junior capt at AAI. When drawing this I compared my rates as a 4th year F/O to your most junior capt per APC at 7th year rates. If I were going to do a "valid comparision" I would have taken 4th year F/O vs 4th year capt at AAI. I didn't feel that was fair since there are not any 4th year capts at AAI. To do this QOL and pay comparision seeded you 3 years of longevity and an upgrade and you say I'm sticking a sock where? BTW our avg TFP per line was 98.63 across both seats in all bases for July.


Luv,
Ghetto

 

[funnyman12]

I agree....but comparing TFP and block hours skews numbers....TFP is approx 12.5% more than block (from what I was told) so a 17 hr 3 day would be worth 19 TFP and a 24 hr 4 day approx 26-27 TFP. An avg Airtran 3 day is worth approx 16hrs and 4 days avg 23 hours. Also you can count on over blocking with delays or even just too tight of a block. We are less efficient but not as much if you compare block hours. Diclaimer......yes SW is better but we need to compare apples to apples....

 

[Lonestar]

Actually, the min for a three day is 19.5 and we do see more of those in Jan and Feb, but the average is probably over 21. The min for a four day is 26, but you won't see that often. The average is more like 29. There is usually a low block day on a four day, but our .75:1 duty and higher min day take care of that.

For the last two months, I haven't flown a three day that paid less than 21. Last week it was 23.5 and this week I fly a monster three day paying 27.5.

 

[Ty Webb]

our .75:1 duty and higher min day take care of that.

That is a great rig. That would almost make a redeye worthwhile.

 

[canyonblue]

....but our .75:1 duty......

Actually .74:1, just to be techno. And if you would want to figure a TFP conversion for that, just being on duty for 10 hours would get you 6:30 of pay.

 

[Cruncher]

Well, a variety on both sides have been posted, no one here gets a min line either -
Seems to me that AT capt pay IS roughly SWA 5-6 year FO pay. Am I wrong?

U mean: 7.4 tfp 4 a 10 hour day.