SWA schedules/QOL vs AAI

[GuppyWN]

I just did a 3 day that paid 28.1 trips (credits) straight time.... really.

I just did a straight pay 4day that paid 34tfp - or $6424.

Gup

 

[funnyman12]

I have been at Airtran over 4 years....i have 17 days off....all weekends and the 4th off, all commutable, with 77 hrs credit due to the commute. Havent worked a holiday in 1 1/2 yrs. Not too shabby. I look forward to the SWA contract but have NEVER needed a hotel yet due to commuting. AT runs a very late bank out of ATL that allows me to get home. SWA is much better but lil airtran ain't as bad as some think.

 

[greenpilot]

That's nothing I'm doing a 4 day worth 22 hrs. Like I said when it come to pay for trips you guys kick our a&&.
What is your avg 3 or 4 day worth?

 

[GoodTimes]

Funnyman,

As a commuter, start thinking more along the lines of 105 to 110 trips/mo with another day off. Commutable trips are rare, though.

 

[herewego again]

I'm flying a two day that pays 22! (Premium tho).

 

[Tripower455]

That's nothing I'm doing a 4 day worth 22 hrs. Like I said when it come to pay for trips you guys kick our a&&.
What is your avg 3 or 4 day worth?

The min for a 3 day is 19.5 and 26 for a 4 day.

The average? I'd say most 3 days pay in the 21-23 range and 4 days in the 28-30, with some above and some below. This time of year, they are usually far above the mins. In Jan and Feb, you'll see more min trips in the bidlines, ELITT etc.

I do mostly 4 days, by choice, to maximize pay per commute. The last few months, all but a few paid 30+, including a few with overfly that went over 35.

 

[PCL_128]

What's the average block on these lines, though? Let's say you have a line with 95 TFP. What does that usually equate to in block hours?

 

[Lear70]

I hate my Dad he is always gone. He thinks this BMW makes up for it... But it doesn't. Sure I don't have college loans but have you heard they are going to raise the inheritance tax... When it's all said and done I'll only get a couple hundred K when my Dad dies!

I hear ya Green... Mo money mo problems

Amen. That's why I bid max days off and the most credit I can get with those minimum days at work to break guarantee. Usually that's 18 days off and about 78-80 hours of block for 82-85 hours of credit (would be approximately 97-105 TFP on the conversion).

You can't replace time at home. I'll do my part and fly what I'm supposed to fly, work hard, have a good time, and help out when need be, but you'll never catch me picking up open time that reduces my days at home. Not until the kids are grown and gone, at any rate. I intend to enjoy my children, be there for their games, the holidays, and HELP them grow up, not just WATCH. If that means I stay a senior F/O for an additional 5-7 years until my CA seniority holds the same QoL I have now before I upgrade? That's fine.

Once I get to the point I can pay my bills and put money into savings that I need? Money doesn't matter past that. It's all about what days I can hold off to be at home with my family. I work to live,,, I don't live to work.

 

[waveflyer]

I don't remember my line bc I elitt a lot and picked up-
Not one premium trip has worked so far- and I have 88 block and 121tfp

I'd guess your average line would have around 65-80 block, depending-
Summer is a different beast though

 

[Tripower455]

What's the average block on these lines, though? Let's say you have a line with 95 TFP. What does that usually equate to in block hours?

Around 80-ish.

In May, I got 132 credit with 92 hours of block. One day was pulled for training, and the rest was straight time. I worked my butt off, but still had 14 days off.

Guys in domicile, that are gaming the system, are cleaning up right now. More TFP and less block/days.

 

[shootr]

Just looked at the MCO FO July lines. Typical lines that pay about 95 TFP block around 78-82 flt hours. My July is paying 124 TFP with 62 block hours (1 week of vaction, 1 day of reserve, and 10 days of flying). MY FO pay is $122 per TFP. But Elitt opens in 5 minutes and I'm going to try to improve what I've got.

Did I just out myself?

PS After Elitting my line, I now stand at 128.7 TFP and 66 block hours. No days changed...just better trips. My typical month is more like 110 TFP and 80 block hours after all is said and done.

 

[Tripower455]

Amen. That's why I bid max days off and the most credit I can get with those minimum days at work to break guarantee. Usually that's 18 days off and about 78-80 hours of block for 82-85 hours of credit (would be approximately 92-97 TFP on the conversion).

That's easy to do. Just bid your line and fly it. It'll pay a lot more over here too.

You can't replace time at home. I'll do my part and fly what I'm supposed to fly, work hard, have a good time, and help out when need be, but you'll never catch me picking up open time that reduces my days at home. Not until the kids are grown and gone, at any rate. I intend to enjoy my children, be there for their games, the holidays, and HELP them grow up, not just WATCH. If that means I stay a senior F/O for an additional 5-7 years until my CA seniority holds the same QoL I have now before I upgrade? That's fine.

Once I get to the point I can pay my bills and put money into savings that I need? Money doesn't matter past that. It's all about what days I can hold off to be at home with my family. I work to live,,, I don't live to work.

You're gonna like it over here then. If you want to make the same money that you're making now, you can work a lot less. If you want to work extra, you can make a ton more money.

 

[Tripower455]

Just looked at the MCO FO July lines. Typical lines that pay about 95 TFP block around 78-82 flt hours. My July is paying 124 TFP with 62 block hours (1 week of vaction, 1 day of reserve, and 10 days of flying). MY FO pay is $122 per TFP. But Elitt opens in 5 minutes and I'm going to try to improve what I've got.

Did I just out myself?

I thought you came out years ago!

 

[texman]

What's the average block on these lines, though? Let's say you have a line with 95 TFP. What does that usually equate to in block hours?

I think 65-78 blk for 95tfp , my line pay's 104 tfp/blocks 68 and I have 18 days off.

 

[Lear70]

That's easy to do. Just bid your line and fly it. It'll pay a lot more over here too.

Cool.

You're gonna like it over here then. If you want to make the same money that you're making now, you can work a lot less. If you want to work extra, you can make a ton more money.

I don't want to drop a ton of time, I still enjoy my job, and I'm very much looking forward to working for SWA and don't want to be a burden on their staffing by regularly flying less than guarantee.

However I am very grateful you guys have a system whereby if you need some time off for a special family event, etc, you can get rid of a trip every once in a while, and make it back up over the next two or three months a little bit at a time so as not to impact your days off badly. It's awesome that you can piecemeal your trip out to 2, 3, or 4 different pilots, leg-by-leg and not have to have someone pick up the whole thing to get rid of it (our system).

Basically there's not a lot I *DON'T* like about your system (except maybe the 7-leg-day "Texas two-step" trips, but I'm told you can avoid the bases that have the majority of those trips and only get a couple of them a year instead of a regular monthly thing).

I think you'll find the vast majority of our guys and gals think the same way...

 

[texman]

Lear,

Trust me you won't put a burden on the system. We have money hungry people here and they will cover that trip. You can do six legs in 8 hour duty day.

 

[jball2]

In 9.5 years I have flown 7 legs exactly twice. I haven't seen a day with that many in several years.

 

[waveflyer]

Amen Lear- and realize the improvements swa will bring to that. I've done your type flying at many places. That 5th day after a 4 day is always rough if you're thrown back into your life bc the reversing of your sleep schedule (to make it commutable) - at hub and spoke carriers an 8 hr block day can easily go into 12-13 hr duty days- I've done one duty day in 4.5 years that's gone over 12- but routinely get 8block in a 9.5-10 hr duty day, and will credit 9+ on that day.
But make no mistake- since I was used to 4 days that paid around 20, and I live in domicile, I can really enjoy the 19.5 min trip 3 day- especially if they layover in the nice spots- nice long layovers, short duty days- and I finish the trip with lots of good sleep, some social time and a few drinks with new and old friends, a couple good workouts and some sun out by pool- get to play airline pilot for a bit each day and get the aviation jones fixed- I'll often finish trips healthier, happier, and more refreshed than when I showed up. And I know that's true for the parents.
As much as I chose my career and always loved it- I very rarely felt this good AFTER the trip.
And even on the more challenging days, bc sleep is consistent the next day is never a throw away day unless I did it to myself staying up too late. And I often had a zombie day working at the other spots.
And flexibility is great. Trading and ELITTing- So many parents have told me how perfect this job is for raising kids and being present.

And for those consistently denigrating the money we make- I see what you're doing. But it's bullish/t. Money can buy a whole lot of things- ESPECIALLY time off. I guess I grew up too broke to ever talk like some of you are talking. Money in America, is freedom.

 

[Lear70]

In 9.5 years I have flown 7 legs exactly twice. I haven't seen a day with that many in several years.

A buddy of mine there (mid-level F/O) texted me his schedule for a trip last month that had that in there... I was like "holy crap". He said "Yeah, don't see those very often."

I think the most I've ever done on the 737 here is 5 legs, the average seems to be 3 throughout the company, I usually do 2, but that's more a function of how the lines in MCO work (mostly long-haul West Coast and Caribbean 3-days) more than anything else (the ATL lines are much more commutable than MCO but are less efficient on a credit-per-day and per-trip basis and are almost all 4-day trips).

The 717 lines are regularly 4-5 legs a day, due to the shorter stage length, which is where the aircraft is most efficient.

 

[Lear70]

Amen Lear- and realize the improvements swa will bring to that. I've done your type flying at many places. That 5th day after a 4 day is always rough if you're thrown back into your life bc the reversing of your sleep schedule (to make it commutable) - at hub and spoke carriers an 8 hr block day can easily go into 12-13 hr duty days- I've done one duty day in 4.5 years that's gone over 12- but routinely get 8block in a 9.5-10 hr duty day, and will credit 9+ on that day.

Yeah, that's why I don't do Red-eyes or CDO's. Ever. Especially when they put it right in the MIDDLE of a trip, flipping your circadian rhythm. I'd be fatigued, guarantee it, so I simply avoid any lines with those in them. Evidently other pilots feel the same; they're the first thing that gets dumped into open time as soon as it opens every month. I'm sure the reserve pilots here hate it, as that's most of what they're flying.

But make no mistake- since I was used to 4 days that paid around 20, and I live in domicile, I can really enjoy the 19.5 min trip 3 day- especially if they layover in the nice spots- nice long layovers, short duty days- and I finish the trip with lots of good sleep, some social time and a few drinks with new and old friends, a couple good workouts and some sun out by pool- get to play airline pilot for a bit each day and get the aviation jones fixed- I'll often finish trips healthier, happier, and more refreshed than when I showed up. And I know that's true for the parents.
As much as I chose my career and always loved it- I very rarely felt this good AFTER the trip.
And even on the more challenging days, bc sleep is consistent the next day is never a throw away day unless I did it to myself staying up too late. And I often had a zombie day working at the other spots.
And flexibility is great. Trading and ELITTing- So many parents have told me how perfect this job is for raising kids and being present.

Sounds great! :beer:

And for those consistently denigrating the money we make- I see what you're doing. But it's bullish/t. Money can buy a whole lot of things- ESPECIALLY time off. I guess I grew up too broke to ever talk like some of you are talking. Money in America, is freedom.

I wasn't trying to do that, I absolutely appreciate the pay bump this will bring, just meant to say that some people constantly chase the money regardless of what it does to their time at home, and I don't play that way. You don't ever get that time back.

For me, the ability to get the days off I need at home trumps extra money, every time, once you have the income to meet your basic needs and expenses... You single people with no kids can chase the cash... (not pointed at you, Wave, just those who fit that profile, and I have a couple friends here at AAI who do). :beer: