SWA schedules/QOL vs AAI

[shootr]

Just looked at the MCO FO July lines. Typical lines that pay about 95 TFP block around 78-82 flt hours. My July is paying 124 TFP with 62 block hours (1 week of vaction, 1 day of reserve, and 10 days of flying). MY FO pay is $122 per TFP. But Elitt opens in 5 minutes and I'm going to try to improve what I've got.

Did I just out myself?

PS After Elitting my line, I now stand at 128.7 TFP and 66 block hours. No days changed...just better trips. My typical month is more like 110 TFP and 80 block hours after all is said and done.

 

[Tripower455]

Amen. That's why I bid max days off and the most credit I can get with those minimum days at work to break guarantee. Usually that's 18 days off and about 78-80 hours of block for 82-85 hours of credit (would be approximately 92-97 TFP on the conversion).

That's easy to do. Just bid your line and fly it. It'll pay a lot more over here too.

You can't replace time at home. I'll do my part and fly what I'm supposed to fly, work hard, have a good time, and help out when need be, but you'll never catch me picking up open time that reduces my days at home. Not until the kids are grown and gone, at any rate. I intend to enjoy my children, be there for their games, the holidays, and HELP them grow up, not just WATCH. If that means I stay a senior F/O for an additional 5-7 years until my CA seniority holds the same QoL I have now before I upgrade? That's fine.

Once I get to the point I can pay my bills and put money into savings that I need? Money doesn't matter past that. It's all about what days I can hold off to be at home with my family. I work to live,,, I don't live to work.

You're gonna like it over here then. If you want to make the same money that you're making now, you can work a lot less. If you want to work extra, you can make a ton more money.

 

[Tripower455]

Just looked at the MCO FO July lines. Typical lines that pay about 95 TFP block around 78-82 flt hours. My July is paying 124 TFP with 62 block hours (1 week of vaction, 1 day of reserve, and 10 days of flying). MY FO pay is $122 per TFP. But Elitt opens in 5 minutes and I'm going to try to improve what I've got.

Did I just out myself?

I thought you came out years ago!

 

[texman]

What's the average block on these lines, though? Let's say you have a line with 95 TFP. What does that usually equate to in block hours?

I think 65-78 blk for 95tfp , my line pay's 104 tfp/blocks 68 and I have 18 days off.

 

[Lear70]

That's easy to do. Just bid your line and fly it. It'll pay a lot more over here too.

Cool.

You're gonna like it over here then. If you want to make the same money that you're making now, you can work a lot less. If you want to work extra, you can make a ton more money.

I don't want to drop a ton of time, I still enjoy my job, and I'm very much looking forward to working for SWA and don't want to be a burden on their staffing by regularly flying less than guarantee.

However I am very grateful you guys have a system whereby if you need some time off for a special family event, etc, you can get rid of a trip every once in a while, and make it back up over the next two or three months a little bit at a time so as not to impact your days off badly. It's awesome that you can piecemeal your trip out to 2, 3, or 4 different pilots, leg-by-leg and not have to have someone pick up the whole thing to get rid of it (our system).

Basically there's not a lot I *DON'T* like about your system (except maybe the 7-leg-day "Texas two-step" trips, but I'm told you can avoid the bases that have the majority of those trips and only get a couple of them a year instead of a regular monthly thing).

I think you'll find the vast majority of our guys and gals think the same way...

 

[texman]

Lear,

Trust me you won't put a burden on the system. We have money hungry people here and they will cover that trip. You can do six legs in 8 hour duty day.

 

[jball2]

In 9.5 years I have flown 7 legs exactly twice. I haven't seen a day with that many in several years.

 

[waveflyer]

Amen Lear- and realize the improvements swa will bring to that. I've done your type flying at many places. That 5th day after a 4 day is always rough if you're thrown back into your life bc the reversing of your sleep schedule (to make it commutable) - at hub and spoke carriers an 8 hr block day can easily go into 12-13 hr duty days- I've done one duty day in 4.5 years that's gone over 12- but routinely get 8block in a 9.5-10 hr duty day, and will credit 9+ on that day.
But make no mistake- since I was used to 4 days that paid around 20, and I live in domicile, I can really enjoy the 19.5 min trip 3 day- especially if they layover in the nice spots- nice long layovers, short duty days- and I finish the trip with lots of good sleep, some social time and a few drinks with new and old friends, a couple good workouts and some sun out by pool- get to play airline pilot for a bit each day and get the aviation jones fixed- I'll often finish trips healthier, happier, and more refreshed than when I showed up. And I know that's true for the parents.
As much as I chose my career and always loved it- I very rarely felt this good AFTER the trip.
And even on the more challenging days, bc sleep is consistent the next day is never a throw away day unless I did it to myself staying up too late. And I often had a zombie day working at the other spots.
And flexibility is great. Trading and ELITTing- So many parents have told me how perfect this job is for raising kids and being present.

And for those consistently denigrating the money we make- I see what you're doing. But it's bullish/t. Money can buy a whole lot of things- ESPECIALLY time off. I guess I grew up too broke to ever talk like some of you are talking. Money in America, is freedom.

 

[Lear70]

In 9.5 years I have flown 7 legs exactly twice. I haven't seen a day with that many in several years.

A buddy of mine there (mid-level F/O) texted me his schedule for a trip last month that had that in there... I was like "holy crap". He said "Yeah, don't see those very often."

I think the most I've ever done on the 737 here is 5 legs, the average seems to be 3 throughout the company, I usually do 2, but that's more a function of how the lines in MCO work (mostly long-haul West Coast and Caribbean 3-days) more than anything else (the ATL lines are much more commutable than MCO but are less efficient on a credit-per-day and per-trip basis and are almost all 4-day trips).

The 717 lines are regularly 4-5 legs a day, due to the shorter stage length, which is where the aircraft is most efficient.

 

[Lear70]

Amen Lear- and realize the improvements swa will bring to that. I've done your type flying at many places. That 5th day after a 4 day is always rough if you're thrown back into your life bc the reversing of your sleep schedule (to make it commutable) - at hub and spoke carriers an 8 hr block day can easily go into 12-13 hr duty days- I've done one duty day in 4.5 years that's gone over 12- but routinely get 8block in a 9.5-10 hr duty day, and will credit 9+ on that day.

Yeah, that's why I don't do Red-eyes or CDO's. Ever. Especially when they put it right in the MIDDLE of a trip, flipping your circadian rhythm. I'd be fatigued, guarantee it, so I simply avoid any lines with those in them. Evidently other pilots feel the same; they're the first thing that gets dumped into open time as soon as it opens every month. I'm sure the reserve pilots here hate it, as that's most of what they're flying.

But make no mistake- since I was used to 4 days that paid around 20, and I live in domicile, I can really enjoy the 19.5 min trip 3 day- especially if they layover in the nice spots- nice long layovers, short duty days- and I finish the trip with lots of good sleep, some social time and a few drinks with new and old friends, a couple good workouts and some sun out by pool- get to play airline pilot for a bit each day and get the aviation jones fixed- I'll often finish trips healthier, happier, and more refreshed than when I showed up. And I know that's true for the parents.
As much as I chose my career and always loved it- I very rarely felt this good AFTER the trip.
And even on the more challenging days, bc sleep is consistent the next day is never a throw away day unless I did it to myself staying up too late. And I often had a zombie day working at the other spots.
And flexibility is great. Trading and ELITTing- So many parents have told me how perfect this job is for raising kids and being present.

Sounds great! :beer:

And for those consistently denigrating the money we make- I see what you're doing. But it's bullish/t. Money can buy a whole lot of things- ESPECIALLY time off. I guess I grew up too broke to ever talk like some of you are talking. Money in America, is freedom.

I wasn't trying to do that, I absolutely appreciate the pay bump this will bring, just meant to say that some people constantly chase the money regardless of what it does to their time at home, and I don't play that way. You don't ever get that time back.

For me, the ability to get the days off I need at home trumps extra money, every time, once you have the income to meet your basic needs and expenses... You single people with no kids can chase the cash... (not pointed at you, Wave, just those who fit that profile, and I have a couple friends here at AAI who do). :beer:

 

[Tripower455]

In 9.5 years I have flown 7 legs exactly twice. I haven't seen a day with that many in several years.

Me either. In fact, I don't think I've done 7 legs in a day since my commuter days. It's a lot more common to do 7 legs in 3 days than 6-7 legs in one.

 

[Notunderpar]

My July line
100.62 TFP
81.55 Block

Before elitt

 

[Tripower455]

My original July line had 95 tfp/80 block with the first 9 days of the month off. I bid this line specifically because it avoided the weekend DTC restrictions, and had a big block to pick up, allowing me to optimize my line in ELITT or POT.

I needed to move a trip for something that came up, so after ELITT, I'm now I'm working 107 with 90 block in 14 days. Same number of commutes and no overlap. I could've done better, but I needed a specific week off for an event that came up after the bids closed.

I'll be haunting ELITT for the next few days to fine tune it.......

 

[SWA/FO]

Thats the beauty of Southwest Airlines - you can have it all.

 

[GuppyWN]

123 trips with 82 hours block. Picked up 3 extra days so I only had 15 days off. No premium pay. Fairly junior Cappy. $22,500 for the month.

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks for the info on block times, guys. I'm used to flying standups, which only block 30-50 hours a month, so it's going to be tough getting used to the higher block times, but if I can keep it in the 60s with 17+ days off, then I'll be pretty happy.

The 717 lines are regularly 4-5 legs a day, due to the shorter stage length, which is where the aircraft is most efficient.

Actually, a 4-5 leg day is a tough day on the 717. You might see one of those on a 4-day trip, but that's usually it. The average is closer to 3 legs per day.

 

[Tripower455]

Thanks for the info on block times, guys. I'm used to flying standups, which only block 30-50 hours a month, so it's going to be tough getting used to the higher block times, but if I can keep it in the 60s with 17+ days off, then I'll be pretty happy.

Keep in mind that we are very productive. We still do relatively quick turns. We do have lots of AC swaps and short sits, but they are nowhere near anywhere else I've worked. It's rare that we can get food and eat it in the airport.

I rarely look at my block time. I am not a tournament level player, so my only concern is pay per day worked. I try to average 8ish+ tfp per day. These trips tend to be the ones with fewer, but longer legs.

 

[Tripower455]

Dupe........

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I am a junior F/O in my domicile. For July I work no weekends and have 16 days off for 92 TFP. My monthly pay is roughly the same as a 7 year capt at AAI working a 70 hour line.


Luv
Ghetto

 

[texman]

The Avrg duty day is 8.63 hrs.

 

[waveflyer]

Thanks for the info on block times, guys. I'm used to flying standups, which only block 30-50 hours a month, so it's going to be tough getting used to the higher block times, but if I can keep it in the 60s with 17+ days off, then I'll be pretty happy.

Could you be any clearer that you REALLY don't like flying?

 

[dicko]

Could you be any clearer that you REALLY don't like flying?

I keep throwing up in my mouth .

A year of 90 hour months, in Texas in a 737-300. It will solve the problem.

 

[jball2]

Good thing is you'll never spend a solid year in - 300 unless you are into that kind of that stuff.

 

[Tripower455]

Good thing is you'll never spend a solid year in - 300 unless you are into that kind of that stuff.

I seem to be spending a year in a 300 every trip! nothing like sweating in the oldies!

 

[MILF Hunter]

I ran some number on reserve lines also.

At SWA, we have reserve line and also 'Blank lines'. The blank lines are a second round of bidding, completed on the 19th, for the trips dropped due to vacation, training, etc.

AAI has reserve lines and something called 'PRC' or something. I'm guessing those are similar to blank, build-up or VTO lines.

The number for AAI were similar for the 717 and 737. Reserve lines make up about 12% of the total. PRC makes up about 9.5%.

At SWA, Reserve lines make up about 11%. Blank lines make up about 7.5%.

At SWA, Reserve lines will have 15/16 days off for 30/31 day month. The Blank lines are built like the majority of our regular lines so the average is over 17 days off.

 

[Cruncher]

MILF,

Me: 5th year FO, about half way up my domicile's seniority list. My July schedule: 8 days, pays 92 / blocks 46, BUT vacation month (29.5), oh, 8 tfp rolls over to August. So vacation paid 37.5 tfp. Have (had) the 1st 8 days of the month off. Plan on working the entire 4th weekend (at CA pay
Don't live in domicile, but big commuter city. Usually able to piece together workable commutes (on one end, usually the start); about half of my trips are commutable. Strictly pm only!!! I average 1 - 2 hotels per month. Some months none, others 3 - 4. So it averages lower.


From the July cover letter (sorry about the formatting):

BASE AVG CAP AVG OFF, MAX LN
BWI CA 98.78 116.56 17.83 112.5
BWI FO 98.78 116.56 17.83 112.5

DAL CA 97.88 115.50 17.63 111.45
DAL FO 97.88 115.50 17.63 111.45

HOU CA 98.08 115.73 17.67 110.4
HOU FO 98.08 115.73 17.67 110.4

LAS CA 98.89 116.69 17.69 112.35
LAS FO 98.89 116.69 17.69 112.35

MCO CA 98.20 115.88 17.92 112.2
MCO FO 98.20 115.88 17.92 112.2

MDW CA 99.20 117.06 17.78 111.45
MDW FO 99.20 117.06 17.78 111.45

OAK CA 98.62 116.37 17.69 111.3
OAK FO 98.62 116.37 17.69 111.3

PHX CA 98.83 116.62 17.7 111.6
PHX FO 98.83 116.62 17.7 111.6

 

[General Lee]

Keep in mind that we are very productive. We still do relatively quick turns. We do have lots of AC swaps and short sits, but they are nowhere near anywhere else I've worked. It's rare that we can get food and eat it in the airport.

I rarely look at my block time. I am not a tournament level player, so my only concern is pay per day worked. I try to average 8ish+ tfp per day. These trips tend to be the ones with fewer, but longer legs.

When will you guys adopt the allnighters? If you drop them, I bet one airline will be happy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I am a junior F/O in my domicile. For July I work no weekends and have 16 days off for 92 TFP. My monthly pay is roughly the same as a 7 year capt at AAI working a 70 hour line.


Luv
Ghetto

Yes, but you will be a lot junior to him after your SLI. The last few SLI arbitration awards did not take higher pay into account.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

When will you guys adopt the allnighters? If you drop them, I bet one airline will be happy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Does virtual Delta do all nighters? If so, does your mom even let you stay up that late?

 

[On Your Six]

Does virtual Delta do all nighters? If so, does your mom even let you stay up that late?

I do them all the time, and it allows fir a commute when I get to base in the morning. Lee probably does them going over to Europe or both ways to South Anerica. You will love them, with Ty as your Captain. When is that SLI anyway for you guys? Popcorn is ready.


OYS